Ep 210 | Keeping More of Your Donations with Jen Nielesky

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Credit card processing is a cost of doing business, it's something we all accept. Did you know that you can negotiate rates and that not everyone pays the same rates for the processing?

Understanding what your contract is is crucial. Working with consultant who can help you navigate the language and the things to consider can save you a good amount of money. That's money that can support your mission and help you increase your impact.

What you'll learn:

→ differences in processing options.
→ flat rates vs variable rates
→ when its time to consider another option.
→ the importance of finding a true partner

Want to skip ahead? Here are key takeaways:

[6:13] There are big differences in credit card processing options. Stripe, Square, and Paypal offer singular rates without an opportunity for negotiation. You can also find partners that can help you find the right platform for your unique business and negotiate rates on your behalf. Finally, you can work with a bank that offers one solution and usually has less wiggle room on rates.
[11:12] Flat rates vs variable – what you should consider. Flat rates are playing with the law of averages. Different cards have different rates. For example, a debit card is way less than a high rewards card or AMEX black card. With a flat rate it doesn't matter how they pay, your charge is the same. Variable rates take into account the card the user pays with. You pay accordingly so while you can't always control the rate, more than likely you'll end up ahead.
[19:48] Find a partner that can help you negotiate rates. Credit card processing is a whole new language. Find someone that you trust that can help you navigate, much like you utilize your health insurance broker. They can often do a statement analysis to show you the specific savings. While they may not be able to save you money at least you'll know you're getting the best rate for where you're at.


[quiz] Should You DIY Your Website

Jen Nielesky

Jen Nielesky

Founder, High Desert Merchant Services

Jen has a professional life that's a mix of hospitality and entrepreneurship. When she started a family working nights was no longer an option, because she didn't like missing nighttime baths, books and snuggles in 2018. She got involved in the payment processing space, and over the years has vetted several processing companies forged relationships, gain deep knowledge about various systems, and have and have pre negotiated rates for clients better than they can get on their own.

Today, she proudly helps businesses with all their payment processing needs. Thanks to those who have allowed her to serve them in this capacity, she enjoys the good fortune of earning an honest income while also being present as a mom do things for clients by ensuring they keep as much of their hard earned money as possible, enjoying excellent service and have a partner and payments for life.

Learn more: https://highdesertmerchantservices.com

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Full Transcript

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] You work hard for your donations, and we and your revenue, whatever your revenue stream is, so we want to help you keep as much of that money in your pocket. Part of that comes to your credit card processing. So in today's episode, we're going to be talking about things that you might want to think about when it comes to your processing. Because you can negotiate now, not with all companies, but there is opportunity out there for you to really pay attention to the systems, the subscriptions that you have, and the credit card fees that you're paying. Because in a lot of cases, especially when you're processing a lot of a lot of volume, it can really make a difference switching to a different credit card processor. So I brought my friend Jen Nielsky. On today's episode to talk to you about some things to consider when it might make time be time to make the switch, and what you might want to consider when doing so.

Jen has a professional life. That's a mix of hospitality and entrepreneurship. When she started a family working nights was no longer an option, because she didn't like missing nighttime baths, books and snuggles in 2018. She got involved in the payment processing space, and over the years has vetted several processing companies forged relationships, gain deep knowledge about various systems, and have and have pre negotiated rates for clients better than they can get on their own. Today, she proudly helps businesses with all their payment processing needs. Thanks to those who have allowed her to serve them in this capacity, she enjoys the good fortune of earning an honest income while also being present as a mom do things for clients by ensuring they keep as much of their hard earned money as possible, enjoying excellent service and have a partner and payments for life. I never knew about payment processing and having a partner until I met Jen and she has been alongside me for my entire business. And has helped me in supporting a lot of my clients in saving money in their processing. Now, not everybody is going to be able to save money by making the switch. But it's important to have it in as something that you review on a regular basis. And it's not something that we all always do. So give a listen to this episode. And hopefully we can give you some tools and resources to think about what your credit card processing picture looks like. And is it time to maybe reevaluate the systems that you're using and the tech that's associated with it.

Before we get into this episode, it is brought to you by our quiz, should you DIY your website, if your website is not giving you all of the results that you want or need or you're just looking for a refresh. Or maybe your organization has experienced a ton of growth and it's time to make sure your website reflects that. Take our quiz at https://thefirstclick.net/quiz. It will give you resources on if you're ready for a do it yourself, do it with a consultant or have it done for you and give you guidelines and resources and help make that process as painless as possible. So again, https://thefirstclick.net/quiz. Let's get into the episode.

[Intro] You're listening to the digital marketing therapy podcast. I'm your host, Sami Bedell-Mulhern. Each month we dive deep into a digital marketing or fundraising strategy that you can implement in your organization. Each week, you'll hear from guest experts, nonprofits, and myself on best practices, tips and resources to help you raise more money online and reach your organizational goals.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  Hey there, please join me in welcoming my guest today. Jen Nielesky . Jen, thanks for being here.

[Jen Nielesky] Thank you for having me.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  Yeah, and this is your second time on the podcast. So I'm so excited to have you back. But for our new listeners, who maybe didn't hear your last episode, would you just kind of share how you got into the credit card processing game and why it's so fun for you? 

[Jen Nielesky] Sure, well, I didn't wake up one day and just like be excited about credit card processing. I just happen to know a long time ago, somebody who did this pretty much for a living. And I found it pretty interesting that he had the ability to write the rate for a business that was a lot of power, but also you know how he made an income and supported his family was cool. So about six years ago, I was looking for a way to support my family and still be able to be a mom, but do something good for businesses. I'm an entrepreneur. And so I looked into becoming a an agent and credit card processing eventually evolved into being a broker in that. Over these years, I've established a lot of relationships with different companies. I've vetted the ones that are good. I've learned a lot. There's a very big learning curve. And so today what I do is with businesses and nonprofits is I help them with all things payment processing, and that involves educating them on what's a good rate, how do you get it? Why does it matter? What systems to use? You know, and some of my clients call me for things that I don't do like vending machines and all kinds of other things. So it's, um, I do kind of nerd out on payment processing it. It didn't start off that way, but there's a lot of power to help people in an industry. And in a world where people really don't know what they don't know, I get to be that that person that helps them know what they don't know, as it pertains to just this one little piece of the organization.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  Yeah, and I think you and I have connected to on so many things. Number one, our passion for nonprofits, but also the fact that that we are both in industries where so many clients come to us having been taken advantage by somebody else. And because they don't speak the language, because they don't know what they don't know. They're spending money on their processing that they shouldn't necessarily have not in all cases, but in some cases. So before we kind of jump into, because I really, the purpose behind this episode is really to help you as a nonprofit, keep as much money in your pocket. But could you kind of talk about the differences between like going through somebody like you to help them negotiate rates versus going through a bank that has a singular service versus maybe going through the stripe, square PayPal kind of grouping of processing? Like what are some key differences between those?

[Jen Nielesky] Sure, well, first off people like me, we are business owners who are 1099, that means that we own our book of business, and I share that with people because you want to know how the person you're working with is going to get compensated. So people like me, were more of a partner with our clients, because we get paid a small percentage of the profit of their processing for the length of it. A lot of people go to their bank for credit card processing, they're dealing with an employee, one of the things that businesses don't know is that these rates, they're all not the same. And so everybody's going to pay a different rate, it kind of comes down to who is setting it. So you go to a bank, or you call one of these companies up that's advertised on Google, you're dealing with the person who is an employee, they're gonna get paid a bonus up front, maybe their hourly wage, but once they leave that company, they don't really care much about you. And then the third one square, Stripe and PayPal. Now, that's a whole different industry altogether. And oftentimes, when I asked somebody who's your credit card processing person, I get an answer like toast or square or XYZ company. And I'm looking for as a person, the best case scenario is to have a partner in payments. It's kind of like if you buy health insurance, you might have a broker who knows all about health insurance. I was fortunate to have this wonderful woman named Christie on my life, I don't even know how she did when she was a worker in health care. And every year what I had to figure out what health care insurance I wanted, she would guide me, to which company and which plan and for all the reasons why. And what I learned was that she knew companies didn't pay out, she knew which companies were good with people with situations like mine, she gave me guidance and advice. She basically filled in that gap of what I didn't know that I didn't know. So a person who is tied to your business financially, that is an expert in this industry will always be the best person to work with. And we're all over the place, there's 10s of 1000s of us, the best thing you can do is ask somebody who's new business, hey, do you have a credit card processing person that you like? My clients refer a lot of business to me. Because we have that relationship? If I wasn't good, they wouldn't. Or other business? Owning friends? Hey, who do you have? You have a person when they say oh, my gosh, you have to talk to you? Yes, he is great. Go talk to Jeff, Jeff probably will take good care of you should or they should know about systems that are going into your industry and they can give you guidance. Now. I hate to say it but like the banks, and like Costco, I hear this all the time, I'm gonna get my processing from Costco. It's a little bit of a facade, because we go in there trusting because it's our bank, or it's constantly trust them. But what they're doing is they're outsourcing it, and they're getting a cut. And so they're going to get the highest rate from you as they can, because that's what they're gonna get paid on. Then you're dealing with an employee that may or may not be a couple of years. So your relationship is with an institution, not with a person. Now, the thing with square and Stripe and PayPal, as they've changed the industry, most of the systems nowadays, especially in the nonprofit space, are going to use one of those three processors. And I would say like if you're doing $20,000 or less than monthly processing, that's okay. But the way that their price pricing structure is it's kind of like a buffet in a restaurant, where they're going to charge the highest rate to hedge against the From fluctuations for business with a nonprofit, that means you're kind of paying the highest rates you can and processing in the whole industry. Now, if you're overpaying by about 1%, on $20,000, that's not terrible. But if you're doing $100,000, or 200,000, or more, you know, it really adds up. So that's kind of the difference. It has to do with the rates and the rate structures. And it also has to do with the level of service that you're going to get from each

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  one. Yeah, well, and you've taught me I know, I still have a lot to learn, but you've taught me a lot of things that, you know, I may be kind of new, and maybe didn't, but things, you know, there's a lot of language around things that you know, kind of come across in the financial spaces. They make it sound too good to be true, like flat rate versus variable rate and things like that. So maybe what are some key if we're, if we're looking at our processing, we're like, okay, maybe I want to maybe I want to look into this right, maybe I want to see if there's another opportunity out there for me, what are some key things that I might want to look for either on my statements or in my contracts? To decide kind of how I want to move forward or where my next step might be?

[Jen Nielesky] Well, the first thing is to understand the different pricing structure. So I kind of alluded to that. There's, what's become more popular nowadays is this flat rate, right? Square 2.6 and 10 cents. So if somebody comes to me and say, What's your rate? I don't it's I can't really answer because I don't use that pricing structure. If I was a restaurant, my pricing structure would be I'm going to show you the wholesale price plus the markup. Whereas with the buffet style, it's more like everyone's going to pay the same price no matter what they use. So let me use that as an example. Okay. Square and Stripe and PayPal, may charge the same rates, no matter what kind of card is used. There are some cards are as cheap as point oh, 5% and 22 cents of transaction. So if you're being charged by were two points mix and Tang, but the cost is only point oh, five and 22. That's a lot of margin. Now, there are some cards that are higher priced, new point 5%. Right. All of your donors use American Express black squares losing money. That doesn't happen. The law of averages. So, for example, you go into a restaurant, Sammy has buffet, and the price is $50 flat, and the guys, the owner says you know what, it doesn't matter what you order 50 bucks. And you brought your grandmother with you remember that commercial Aton right now, where the guy sits down, and Granny just got the mashed potatoes. And he's like, all you're getting is mashed potatoes, and you'd like angry envy, right? So you go and you pay $50 Granny gets mashed potatoes, you get the chicken dinner, and your uncle Ned gets the steak and lobster dinner. Okay, you pay, you all pay $50 each. The next month, you go back to that restaurant, but it's under new ownership. And now, they actually have a menu for each item. And so you look at the menu and you go, wow, Granny's mashed potatoes only cost $8. I see that's what the wholesale price was plus $2 markup. So a $10. We paid $50 For Granny's $10 and mashed potatoes. And the chicken dinner is only $15 with the $5 markup. But then you see Uncle Ned, and his steak and lobster dinner was 60 bucks. So the restaurant owner was losing a few dollars. That's how square and PayPal and Stripe, they just say everyone's going to pay this because it has to be high so that that fluctuation of cost because of all the mix of the cards, they don't want to lose money, but you have no way of knowing how much of that is margin. In my experience, depending on the business or nonprofit, there is about one to one and a half percent of excess there. So when I say if you're doing you know, $10,000 1% of $10,000 isn't a big deal. But one to 2% of $100,000 is and so in terms of what you should be looking for. First of all, if you have the ability to choose the pricing structure, don't go with a flat rate, ask them to put you on cost plus pricing. That means you pay what the cost is for that card, right plus a pre negotiated margin. And that is negotiable. That's called your merchant service rate. And it's going to look like a percentage and a per transaction fee that will be on top of cost. One thing that I see sometimes is salespeople will say how does 1.5 and 10 cents of transactions out? Well that sounds great. You want to make sure you ask them, Is that going to be it? Or is that on top of cost? Because that's one of the things I've seen unfortunately, there's a lack of ethics in the industry. That's usually on top of costs. So if your cost is coming in at 2% Then you're paying 2% plus what he just told you 1.5 And whatever why sad Okay, For me, I usually price my business is somewhere around about a quarter of a percent. So that would be 2.25% and 10 cents a transaction on top of cost. That's very much in line with what a nonprofit would want to pay. The other thing too, is some of the companies don't give charity rates, like squares, not known for giving the charity rate. But when you sign up with stripe and PayPal, or another processing company, like through a person like me, so long as you can show, you know, the paperwork, there is a charity rate that Visa and MasterCard gives to and I find a lot of nonprofits don't take advantage of that. Because a they don't know. And then be there working with a company that maybe also didn't know or didn't ask, work. So it's just a took a minor thing, but it shaves a few points off of the overall cost also.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  Well, I think we forget because stripe, PayPal and square are so large in this, like not even just in the nonprofit space just in the business owner space in general, that we forget that there is a negotiating space with other companies that exists out there. So I like that you set that threshold, that dollar amount. So it's like okay, yeah, once I'm processing over 10 or $15,000 a month now it's worth my time and effort to take a look at what other options there might be out there. Because I because you would, you would agree that when you're just getting started, it's just about having the systems in place that make it easy for you to take people's money until you kind of get to that space where you're processing at a certain level.

[Jen Nielesky] Right. And that's pretty typical. It's easy to start easy to set up. But it's costly after a while. So for example, I'm working with a tribal organization. And they're all their programming. They don't they have a normal POS, but I just found out that they also have this huge amphitheater where they do concerts. And because they were in a hurry, somebody just ordered square. This is a nonprofit organization. They are literally nonprofit. And so they've got about 50 terminals deployed at this amphitheater. And they're doing $150,000, a show three times a week, it just kills me. They are literally paying Heinz processing fees that they possibly can. So I haven't told my contact, how much that's going to equal we're going to revisit it after summer. But that was a perfect example of they just needed to get something quick. So sad. But square also, you know, in PayPal and Stripe things also fit the model with a lot of the apps. You know, there's so many in the nonprofit space, so many platforms, and apps designed to take in donations, run auctions, and so forth, what you want to look for, if you're doing big dollars, it's fine, those platforms that are processor agnostic. And how you do that is ask them do you integrate with other payment processors or gateways? One that's really well known as authorized. Net, there's all kinds of gateways and so long as the payment processor you want to use can integrate with that gateway, and then it can integrate with your platform, you're good to go.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  Yeah, and I would say to a lot of times, like software systems won't make it obvious that they integrate with something like authorize dotnet. Or you might have to pay a little bit more like for example, I do all my scheduling through acuity. If I want to have payment processing through authorized net, instead of square, I have to pay a higher monthly fee. So it is unfortunate in some of those cases. But at the end of the day, what you find is like your savings are still once you get to that certain point, your savings are still better. And you have more security over your dollars. But I also want to touch on like, you might be thinking, Well, my credit card or my donation page, my software allows me to capture the credit card fees from my donor. So I don't really need to work on to change. But this can integrate them in everything you do, from your events to your services that you you know, if you do memberships or anything like that, it can integrate across the board. So you don't want to just look at the dollars that are coming in through donations. Right.

[Jen Nielesky] Right. Yeah, exactly the kind of like the NBN organization with the amphitheater, they're selling drinks and tickets at a concert right. And so they're using terminals, so all your payment processing and in some cases, there might be a hybrid one system that you really love might make you use stripe, but everything else you can make different choices. Right? Yeah. Um,

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  so if, like what is the process look like? Like if I wanted to talk to like a credit card broker? Are they called brokers? Are you called a broker?

[Jen Nielesky] You know, it's kind of weird. I don't know.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  Somebody who represents

[Jen Nielesky] how I operate in terms of like, you tell me what you need, and I'm gonna give you all the advice and so it's kind of like broker consultant. I'm in the industry though you might look for like a merchant services agent or you can ask it around. Basically, if you talk to 10 different businesses, somebody is going to say I have a guy, right or girl. And you want to ask, is there do you work with somebody? Who does all your payment processing? Or who does your credit card processing? For? If they say it's toast, or you know, our bank or what? Stay away from that you're looking for them to say, Oh, I kind of like what you do for me, you know, I've got a girl, you want to talk to Jen? Yeah, you know, and it might take a while there's so they're there. There's people across the nation. And there's some really good people, I have a pretty good network, but they're all over the place. Obviously, I would be happy to work with anybody. But if somebody wants somebody locally, they could also go, for example, look at the Chamber of Commerce, they can go look at if there's any BNI networks, usually BNI, which is business, networking, international, they kind of vet people. So if there's a merchant services person in that group, and one thing you want to ask is, do you only sell one company? Or do you have access to more than one, if they only have access to one company, and that's the only thing, a lot of times, you know, that doesn't make mean it's the best thing. So try to find somebody that has access to more than one thing, and also have tried to find somebody who works with clients that are also in your niche, because there's a lot of knowledge that we carry, I work a lot with restaurants, bars, and hotels and resorts. And I know a lot of things about payment processing and systems, that it would take a long time for them to know just because other people that I work with that have had those experiences. So I'm oftentimes putting people in the payment processing industry, if you'll allow them to be your partner, it can really add a lot of value.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  Well, I think that's critical too, because there's so many different pieces of tech that have to interact and different tech, like you know, point of sale or like an something that's going to activate people at an event like those things are might have additional monthly fees. So I like that you mentioned that because not knowing what you need is going to help you and really kind of coming up with what that whole transition plan looks like. So if somebody is like, Okay, I really want to evaluate all of my stuff. Because we do this, we try to do this once a year in our business and evaluate all of our subscriptions. What are we paying for? Monthly? What can we keep? What can we get rid of and your credit card processing? is exactly that as well. It's a subscription basically, that you're paying for every single month. So what kinds of things would I want to gather before I talk to somebody to make sure that I can get the best full picture of what, what it might look like to switch to something else?

[Jen Nielesky] Yeah, so in the profit world, I do something called a statement analysis. So I'll get a recent statement, somebody's merchant services statement, and I'll do an apples to apples comparison, that will show you what you're paying what you're overpaying. There's any trick fees, oftentimes, we find a lot of trick fees, unfortunately. Now, having said that, if they're using Stripe or square or PayPal, it's cut and dry. They're not going to give you a statement, they're not going to show you what part is the wholesaler what part is the margin, they're just gonna say it's a buffet remember? In that case, what you want to do is organize your numbers. So on a per month basis, how many transactions Did you run? What was the total amount processed? And pretty much that because the rates are published, we can usually do a statement analysis and tell you, you know, based on experience that the hypothetical your costs would normally be, you know, we're taking a guess, around here. And then from there, we can show so in the profit world, that's usually where we start, we do analysis breakdown, the dollars and cents, because a lot of times in restaurants, they have to change out their system. If they're going to use me well, we find, especially with toast and square, it's usually in the 1000s of dollars a month. So if you realize that you're paying three or $4,000 a month more in processing every month. Yeah, and you know, switching out that us for $5,000, one time doesn't look so bad, you're gonna save 50 bucks a month, you're gonna go I'm not going to change my system off the mat. And so we always start with the numbers, how much is there a trim. So if you have normal traditional processing, when you have a merchant services statement, get that and get it to somebody that you're willing to work with, and have them do a statement analysis. And if you don't have that, then get them the numbers and ask them to give you a hypothetical, and then you can decide.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  And should they also come with a list of like, these are the other platforms that we process through? So like your auction software, or if you have a specific donation platform or your CRM, like should they have all of that information to make sure that the integrations and things like the solution that they provide is something that you can utilize in other places.

[Jen Nielesky] And that's so that's where the consulting part comes in. So yes, the answer to your question and they need to let us know if they're going to be flexible and changing because if you've got all these systems and they make you use square then what's the point of this exercise at all? I only want to tell you to be honest, I'd rather the ignorance is bliss, just keep doing what you're doing. Yeah, there is kind of the point where we go okay, we were using this beginning Let's all Band Aid together because it was what it was. Now, we want to see how we can aggregate it all. And so at that point, if it's if you go, hey, you know what we can save, you know, 100, whatever, let's say 500 600 bucks a month and processing, if we were to use this person's processing, how can we do that? What systems would it would hopefully the person they're working with would be able to say, Yes, I have a solution for that, which I do. And you know, right before I came on this podcast, just to see what kind of a bad feedback I'd get, I went to one of my Facebook networks and said, Hey, what do you guys suggest for nonprofit platforms that are processor agnostic, and people were throwing out a lot of this was what we use, we love it, here's how this would house payment links, where it's open, people could put in how much they want live events, we've raised a lot of money, blah, blah, blah. So there's a lot of a lot of knowledge, too, that can be gained by working with somebody who works again, in your niche.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  Well, and I think, to your point, like what you're saying is like, Okay, well, when we start our nonprofit organization is just about getting started, how can we get money in the door, we're typically using free CRMs or free giving platforms, because we're just trying to get going, and then, you know, you're right, everything is kind of banded together. And as your organization grows, and you start to bring in more money, you start to kind of refine those solutions. So my hope would be for you, as listeners is that once you get to the point where you're, you know, bringing in $20,000, a month or so on average for your organization, right? We I mean, we want to look at as an average over the the year ish, or you want to be

[Jen Nielesky] it depends, I mean, as someone who's doing 20,000, but like lots of transactions, there's a fight, there's a balance, a mathematical, as, but the thing is, I love I'm sorry, I didn't mean

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  to do? Oh, no, I was just gonna say My hope is that you would be at that point now, where you're also streamlining the tech that you're using, and like making it more simplistic, so there's less things that you're having to kind of throw together. So it's like a marrying of like bringing all of those things together anyway. But yes, the marriage between transaction numbers and dollar amounts.

[Jen Nielesky] Yeah, yeah. So it's not as there's no exact threshold, I kind of take it case by case. I just throw that out there. Because like I said, sometimes of using the platform that you want to use, if it's not a big dollar difference, you know, but like, you're saying, there's sort of economies of scale, there's a point where you go, you know, what, it's costing us way too much. For example, you'll never see McDonald's using clear. Right, right.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  Yeah, for sure. Um, well, I think I love just how easy this thought process is how you broken it down and made it really easy for people to think about. I know some nonprofits are going to be starting their new fiscal year, July 1, this episode comes out right before that. So it might not be the right time for a switch right there. But I think definitely something to include and to bring to your CFO to make sure that you're even if you're not ready to have a conversation with somebody to make it a part of your quarterly financial review and just see like, where are we out? Are we kind of hitting and getting closer? What are we spending on our processing, and paying attention to that number, I think is really important, cuz it is a cost of doing business. But that doesn't mean we just have to take it at face value. Right? Anything else that you want to add, or that would be important or helpful for organizations to know, as they're thinking about their processing,

[Jen Nielesky] I mean, the best advice I really can give is find a partner, either a human being who is vested in your business, who supports her family, by taking care of payment processing. For businesses or nonprofits, it's really great to have an ally, they'll they'll act as a outsourced chief payments officer, and they're getting paid off of the profitability from your processing. So there's no out of pocket, it's really the best. It's the best case scenario. So if you can find somebody that you know, like and trust, and really outsource a lot of them that stuff to them, they'll find you the best deals, they'll find you the best systems, they'll watch over your business. And that really just allows you to do what you do best.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  Yeah, well, and one thing that I'll you know, shout out you for I mean, because this is also I think, a reason why the two of us just get along philosophically so well, with our businesses, we as we approach it the same, right that same like we have maintenance plan so that our clients don't have to contact the hosting company, should something happen with their website, they contact me as a person. You know, finding that right partner means when something doesn't work in the tech side of it, something breaks processing isn't happening like it's supposed to, again, you have that partner that you call, so that removes the stress and the anxiety of it all because I know I can call you as a human. I'm not trying to call some phone bank somewhere that I might get to somebody in 15 to 20 minutes of sitting here on hold. Yeah,

[Jen Nielesky] credit card processing is frustrating. It's terrible. Find someone who will do it for you. That's the best thing to do. I hope

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  well, Jen, so many helpful things here. If people want to connect with you learn more about Aren't you? How do they do that?

[Jen Nielesky] Well, I'm, I'm pretty sure you'll post my contact information, the at the end of this are welcome to reach out call text, email, I'm happy to give guidance, there might be some times where I say, Hey, I definitely can help you, there might be some times where I suggest they stick with what they have. I would really just rather give authentic advice, but I'm happy to give it I like to nerd out on payment processing. So if somebody wants to talk about it, I'm happy to do that.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern]  I love that. Well, Jen, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. So much great information that Jen shared. So I hope that you enjoyed it. And I hope that it gave you something to think about. It has been so fun spending this whole month talking about donation pages for you, I hope that you are evaluating your donation page and getting it set up for success so that you can bring in as much money as possible, and have your website working for you while you sleep. You can check out the show notes for this episode at https://thefirstclick.net/210. And including all the ways you can connect with Jen if you have questions or if you're looking for a referral for somebody in your area that you might want to talk to, although she serves people all over the country. For now, please make sure you subscribe. Wherever you listen, we have some interesting bonus episodes showing up in July and you'll only know about them if you subscribe. You can check us out wherever you stream, your podcasts or also on YouTube at the first or excuse me a digital marketing therapy for now. I'll see you in the next one.

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