Ep 204 | How Content Can Encourage Connection with Kevin Kwan

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Do you know how to craft content that speaks to your potential donors where they are? Not everyone reads your stuff and is ready to give you their money. It's a matter of having a combination of pieces that reach them where they are. This helps with engagement and building trust with your current and potential donors. Grab the framework for how to do that in this episode.

What you'll learn:

→ what types of content you should create.
→ crafting content for different stages of awareness.
→ reverse engineering your content based on when your next ask is.
→ give people next steps in your content

Want to skip ahead? Here are key takeaways:

[7:54] The importance of context in your content. It's important to understand who you're talking to and the scenario the content is being consumed in. By making the content about the individual you are able to connect in a more meaningful way. Just creating content for the sake of content doesn't work.
[12:21] Talking to donors at the bottom of the triangle – the wants aware phase. These are your potential donors and they take the longest to move to the top. Your first four lines (or 10-20 seconds) are most critical – regardless of the type of content. End it with solution.
[15:00] The next level is symptoms aware. This is where you share the stories of those that you are serving. Instead of just telling people what you do, show it. Start your first four lines (or 10-20 seconds) speaking to emotion through senses. Here is where you can start to get more specific.
[21:43] Process aware is the middle phase. This is where you talk to about your organization and how you are solving the problem. For the first time, this is where you lead with your organization.
[24:02] Identity aware is level 5. Here you communicate how the cause fits with your donors values and motivations. Get specific!
[25:17] Coach aware! This is the best phase because these people are your biggest fans. When you ask for support they give it. The goal is to get as many people up to this phase in our marketing campaigns in between giving campaigns.


[quiz] Should You DIY Your Website?

Kevin Kwan

Kevin Kwan

Founder, Conversion Kevin

Meet Kevin, the expert who can help you with just that. He's been writing email funnels and sales pages for over 30 different influencers in the health, wellness, and personal development industry. And you know what?

His techniques have increased their program sales between 150% to 300%.

Kevin has had quite the experience in the industry. He has been the main copy and offers coach for two multi-million dollar online coaching and consulting companies.

His expertise has helped their clients craft their high-ticket offers and position their content to convert for their clients.

Nowadays, Kevin runs his own mentorship, mentoring coaches on how they can apply a marketing and sales system that uses the process of belief shifts instead of hard sales. Learn more: https://app.conversionkevin.com/podcast/group 

We love creating the podcast. If you like what you learned here please give us a tip and help us offset our production costs.

When you leave a review it helps this podcast get in front of other nonprofits that could use the support. If you liked what you heard here, please leave us a review.

Full Transcript

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] By now, in this month of content marketing, you know that creating content is something that you need to do. But it might be difficult to kind of figure out what to create, how to get people to take action and how to move people through your buying process, so that they can become donors. Well, I have the perfect episode for you today.

Meet, Kevin Kwan, the expert who can help you with just the content piece that you've been needing. He's been writing email funnels and sales pages for over 30 different influencers in the health and wellness and personal development space. And you know what his techniques have increased their program sales between 150 to 300%. Kevin has had quite the experience in the industry. He has been the main copy and offers coach for two multimillion dollar online coaching and consulting companies. His expertise has helped their clients craft their high ticket offers and position their content to convert their clients. Nowadays, Kevin runs his own mentorship, mentoring coaches on how they can apply a marketing and sales system that uses the process of belief shifts instead of hard sales. And that's really what we all want to be doing. Right, really connecting with our audience, building a relationship with them so that they know that we are the nonprofit that is uniquely here to serve their needs, and to help them give in the ways that are meaningful to them.

So he's going to provide his framework for how you can think about the types of content you create, and how you create the messages within that content, you're gonna love this episode. So I'm not going to hold back, you're probably going to have to come back and listen to this episode a couple times, just so you can get the various different pieces of his five plus step process. But you're gonna love it, I know you will. And it's gonna really help you rethink the way that you're framing the content that you're creating.

So before we get into it, this episode is brought to you by our quiz showed you DIY your website, you can check out this free resource at https://thefirstclick.net/quiz. And take the quiz to find out if it's time to revamp your website. And if it is, should you do it yourself? Or should you hire someone else and regardless of where you end up, you'll get amazing resources to help you make the decision that's right for you based off of your budget, your ability to take care of your technology and understand the technology of your website, and your staff and time and all of the things. So, again, https://thefirstclick.net/quiz I hope you'll check it out. Let's get into the episode.

[Intro] You're listening to the digital marketing therapy podcast. I'm your host, Sami Bedell-Mulhern. Each month we dive deep into a digital marketing or fundraising strategy that you can implement in your organization. Each week, you'll hear from guest experts, nonprofits, and myself on best practices, tips and resources to help you raise more money online and reach your organizational goals.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Hello, hello, everyone. Please join me in welcoming Kevin Kwan to the podcast. Kevin, thank you so much for being here.

[Kevin Kwan] Thank you so much for having me. And I'm super honored to talk to all your donors and organizations out there about this secret piece of information that's not gonna be secret anymore.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Top secret, I love it. Well, we're talking content all month long. And I you reached out to me, I just loved your approach in the way that you kind of take a look at content from a different way that I think is going to lend very well to the nonprofit space in the way that we think about what we do. But before we kind of jump into some of the goods here, why is content creation and content marketing something that has become a passion of yours?

[Kevin Kwan] Yeah, great question. I fell into this. And I know I used to be a really bad writer. And in fact, in high school and in college, I would be like, the person that just gets by with the D minus as when I opened up my own business in as a gym. And you know, the Internet was starting to become a thing. This was like 2009 like internet marketing. And I was like, cool, like, how are these people building like these big things like these big followings. And there was new gym wanting to grow it? So I started reading and researching and you know, you stumble across these things and you talk about this content thing, okay, like what is content? I suck at writing. And then I heard this copywriters say, well, it's like, the great thing about writing online and using copy is that you don't need to be writing like an essay. You can write like how you talk. I'm like, great. And it's all about voice and being yourself. So I started this thing. And I started writing content and just felt like things about what I know and how it's helped people. And then suddenly, I started getting some clients coming through who refer back to that blog post back then or what I wrote on Facebook and then that clicked I'm like, Hey, wow, like, I didn't have to be in front of that person. I wrote it once, and I got to clients. So that's kind of where my journey went into getting more into more like that depth of how you can move people with words, and in this case, move people as becoming clients.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] I think that's a beautiful story. Because I think so many times when it comes to marketing in the online space, we stopped before we start, because we think we have to be perfect before we start. So I love that you've just kind of learned and grown and built, you know, like, I assume now, like layered in more and more skills as you've grown your business, but you just started by just getting started.

[Kevin Kwan] Yeah, and I think that's what holds a lot of people back in the head doesn't matter what industry I coach, a lot of health coaches and professionals, and they come from an academic space. So they have been ingrained where they're going to be marked, you know, you're not, you're not going to get that A your life's gonna be over or whatever. But when you come in the online space in perfection is what people are actually after. Because imperfection shows that you're human, and I can bond with you in some way. So you know, if you are disorganized, that's okay. Because there's probably your avatar who is probably going to, let's say donate or become a client can relate like, hey, like, you know, they're running a business or a nonprofit, they're disorganized and liquid or they are so the imperfection is like the things that give you an edge with your with your content, compared to, you know, the basic formulaic corporate kind of sounding feel, you know, nobody wants to come home from work and and want to read like, something super formal they want, right? They want entertainment, and they want to relate

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] well, and we want to be able to absorb information quickly, right, because you have a short attention span. And so we want to make sure that we are grabbing people, but like making it easier for them to process what we're writing or what we're reading quickly.

[Kevin Kwan] Absolutely. And especially with like Gen Zed, I know you mentioned in your one of your shows, like you know, Gen Zed, our buyers and Gen Zed are donators, except that they consume things a little bit differently. And I think being able to write on and actually video is content to like just anything you put out there that gives value entertains a little bit, that's all content. But you know, if we can learn how to write content, it actually trains us to be a little more articulate, so that when we're on video and all that we've already processed that writing so that when we show up a video, we could just talk about that subject. Yeah, okay. Well, let's

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] talk about this. Because you said, you know, video is content and agreed, like we need to kind of create content for where audiences but I feel like the phrase comes out all the time, we need more content content is king, let's create content. So like, what are types of content? And how might we want to think about which types of content we produce?

[Kevin Kwan] Yeah. So first off, let's answer the content question content is king. It is, but however, context, context is the Queen and the Queen wears the pants. So context is based off who we're talking to, and the scenario. So everybody out there, and I think, you know, it's going to go more and more of this, because an online business has just matured so much, is becoming more of a values decision making society. And we tend to side with the people that your organization's based off core values, right? And if we know our values, and we understand the values of our audience, that's going to create the context of the content. So what do I mean by that? So for example, so I'm just going to show some examples of my coaching clients, let's say emotional eating, right? So if you got emotional eating, the values that they have, right, so the values of, you know, let's say, self love, compassion, and empathy, somebody who understands, and I'm sure, you know, some nonprofits can probably relate to that is not going to resonate with weight loss for high performing women was like, type a go after it. So if you don't have those values, and I'm trying to blanket a message to everybody, because content is king with no context, then it's, of course, it's not going to hit. So that answers so that's the first thing I want to

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] know such a good, that's such a good point.

[Kevin Kwan] Yeah, thank you. And the next thing is, like the content itself, like, think so going back to your question was like, you know,

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] what types of content should you create the content? Yeah.

[Kevin Kwan] So through my years of doing this since 2009, until now, it's the types of content that I teach people to create is actually based off belief shifts, because that's where believe it His people where they are and the decisions they make are based off their beliefs. And the beliefs drive how you think and how you think drives thoughts and feelings, thoughts and feelings, drive your decisions, and then the actions to do something, not do anything or do something different. So the types of content, start all the way to the beliefs, if I believe in something, if you meet me where my beliefs are, and my beliefs are wrong, I, you can transition that through your content, so words or or video. So let's go into the types, there's actually five types that we want to create. And this framework that are created allows organizations or coaches or anybody putting stuff out there to be very intentional about what they write, and so that you can start shifting those beliefs. And this, this framework allows you to create an a narrative as well, to take somebody from, let's say, believing in one thing to believing something completely different. Now, you want me to go into that? Yeah, let's

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] jump right into it. Let's give it let's get, let's go. All right, we're

[Kevin Kwan] gonna be a matter of fact, we're gonna jump right into save this podcast, and you're gonna want to re listen to some parts. Okay, so visualize a triangle. So you got this triangle. And at the bottom of the triangle, the width of each section, and let's say there's like, six sections in there. And the bottom of the triangle in the or the width of the triangle represents the pool of customers, or donors, per se, okay? So bottom, lots, top, not very many. So think about also the, the height, okay, so the height is the length of time it takes to turn somebody from a donor, to get to the top where, okay, I'll just take, I'll just put me on a subscription plan to take money out every year, every month. So our goal for any organization doesn't matter what you do, especially if you deal with the general population is that we need to take the bottom we need to move people from the bottom to the top with our content. That's what our content is doing. It's intentionally moving people from one belief to another belief to another belief to another belief. So the different sections, or we call them, we're going home content types, however, you want to say whatever is easier. We, we have certain beliefs. So at the bottom of the triangle, lots of potential donors, right takes the longest to move up to the top. So this section we call wants aware. So in this section here, this wants aware, is more like, from the donor perspectives or for nonprofits is like they want to do something that's bigger than themselves. They want to and if you maybe do a cause, like a condition, they maybe they went to an experience, and they want to not have anybody ever go through a conditional low, right? So you have to understand their wants. So how will you create that content, whether you do a blog, whether you do a video, whether you do social media posts, Facebook, Instagram, your first four lines, if it's written is the most key thing, and that dictates who you're talking to. And why I say the first four lines written well, because when you're on your phone, you only see the first four lines. And if it doesn't click, if they don't click on it, or they're not going to read it in a video, it's going to be about your first 10 to 20 seconds of whatever you say. So we want to meet them at where they want. And we want to end that piece of content on what are the symptoms, right, that are kind of like holding them back from doing the thing that they want, right? So in this case, let's say they had a condition, they don't want anybody ever go through it again. Cool, I'm going to meet them there or where they want. I'm going to write about that condition. And then I'm going to end it where you know there are these symptoms that you have and that's what we do we help these people to alleviate find help alleviate the pain and such and such. So now that moves everybody. Sorry, go ahead.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, cuz so I was gonna say you because you're you're starting with where they are at have making the whole thing about them. You're not even necessarily talking about your organization or business until till the very end until they've read through what you've talked about. And they understand that you understand? Yeah, what they where they're at. Right. So they've already then made a little bit of a connection with you.

[Kevin Kwan] Yeah. So that yeah, so sorry. That's a great finding that piece there. So somebody at the bottom there is you never asked for donation you never asked for sale because again, these bottom people we're trying to make them more aware. So if we keep sending out donation campaigns, for example, we keep blasting those out every month. All you're doing there is you're just capturing people more at the top of the triangle. It'll probably be great for the first couple of times, but we still start burning it out, burning out burning it out. And then we need to dig at the bottom. So now that we move people from the ones that Now we have the symptoms or what I call symptoms where that's the next level. These are these in the context of nonprofits. And we're going to use like symptoms of whoever the cause is for. Right? That's their symptoms. So let's I don't know, let's take Worldvision Worldvision does a great thing of this in the commercials like showing you how they live. And these are the symptoms. This is what it's like to not have food instead of saying these people don't have food, and everybody has different beliefs about not having food, is it literally not having food? I'm eating like mud pies, or is it not having food, like, kids like going from, you know, gourmet steak to can can beef, like what is not having food mean? So this is why we never assume, because we just don't know these beliefs. So in the symptoms aware, you want to meet to whatever the symptoms of whoever you're doing this for. So let's just kind of go back to like hunger. So I'm gonna go over all the senses of hunger, it could be the looks right? It could be how they feel it could be the feelings of the mother and how they feel for their kids. So that's how I'm going to start my sentences, my first four, and then I'm going to or the first 10 to 20 seconds. Does that make sense so far?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah. I have a question about that for you, though. So when we're when we're looking at the symptoms phase? Is that also where we are being hyper specific? Because you've mentioned like, there's, it's like, if we talk about food scarcity, right, like that's a broad swath of things and organizations tackled differently. So at this phase, are we also kind of being hyper specific about this is how we are helping to solve the problem so that people can understand if we are the right choice for them? Or are we still trying to do kind of broad awareness for the cause overall, and reaching a broader base?

[Kevin Kwan] No. The first one, specifics of the symptoms of whatever that condition or thing is, and then specifics of what you do, as well, because we have to also remember, like people aren't in the nonprofit organization, people don't know about things like the specifics of a weight loss, so we have to be specific to them. So that was actually going to go in the frame of the post. So how it starts, this offers four senses, whatever the symptoms are of the person, you're helping the cause you're helping for, then what you talk about you transition to, because these people don't know how you're helping. So now you transition into, okay, how do you help with those symptoms? Well, you know, we make sure we get this type of food, and that this type of food so that they can get all these nutrients, and they don't eat too much or something. And then we ended off with well, actually, that's how you get enough is like that, that is like your solution or your promise. So now, this level is taken care of. So now I've brought everybody from the bottom, I'm moving on top. And just know for everybody listening is that there are people in the spots already. You're just filling the pools more. Okay. So, now these people now understand, like, what's kind of going on? Oh, it's like, oh, I never know that they went through that. I never knew that. They felt that like, Oh, that's so great that you're helping with that. Now we have what we call promise aware and the promise, where is exactly what it sounds, what's your promise? What are other promises of other organizations to like, what differentiates you, right? And this is kind of where a lot of the value is kind of driven things comes from, like, some people might really value connection. So if your boots on the ground and you hand deliver it, versus somebody that might be just green energy. So and that could separate them just because that's the value of their, you know, people, right? And that could be there that organization's value. So I promised to where these people might have been exposed to multiple different nonprofits for, let's say, one issue, they've seen it and seeing the ads and all that stuff. You want to basically need them at how you do it. So how are you solving the problem of let's say, world hunger or food scarcity? How are you solving the problem of AIDS or cancer? Are this research, right? Tell me how you're doing it. And also tell me and you don't have to name organizations, but just give me a general sense of what's going on in the industry to have where does the money usually go like Charity Water? I don't know if you've heard they do a really good job of this and just breaking down where all the money goes. I know at some churches, they also tell you where the money goes, and the breakdown or percentages, that transparency. And this is kind of where you do it. Because now let's think about the lease. We've already shipped the beliefs of people who want something but just don't know where to start. We all wish. Now we had that connection of like the specific symptoms of the people or the cause. And now it's just like, I want to do something But what do you do before I hand over my money, or you transfer, you know, and

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] I think this is where it becomes really specific in knowing who you are and what you do, and trusting in that and trying not to be all things to all people with your content, right? Like, we have that fear. And we talked about this a lot on the podcast, because it's so important. And everybody says the same thing. And that's why I love it so much. But like, you have to really trust the lane that you're in, and continue to just really push that because you can't be all things to all people. And in fact, to get money from donors that aren't in full alignment with your like, with your beliefs aren't in alignment. It just makes your work so much harder, especially in the content creation space.

[Kevin Kwan] Yeah, totally. And, you know, just just, especially in the content creation space, it's a lot better to have like this focus on like, okay, these people these values, right, I'm gonna write, let's say, like dog rescue organizations, there's gonna be certain methods. And that's why there's so many organizations, each of them operate under different differently based off a set of values. And when we reach the right people, not only you're gonna get more donations per person, right, they're going to be talking about it to their friends a lot more, because we're just so focused, and that are so aligned, it's almost like, like, in the rule of thumb in copy is like, talk to them as if like, they are like, your best friend. And if they feel that, well, they're going to tell everybody, and they're going to give you more, and they're going to stay as a longer, you know, let's say donor.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] So good. So okay, what's next, in the

[Kevin Kwan] promise aware, so I'll finish that up. This is kind of where you want to talk about how you're different kind of in the middle and how you're doing things to help. Now, there's a there's a slight difference in the next level, I call that a process aware. And this is more about how the process of how things are done in your organization. And what makes you different, are right up top, at the first four lines are the first 10 to 20 seconds, these people are going to be aware of let's say I like donating to animal rescue organizations. They're just wondering, who do I give my money to?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] So you're saying step four is the first time that you're leading with your organization?

[Kevin Kwan] Yes, yes. Yes, these people are wearing these. These people. Usually when you send donation campaigns and marketing campaigns, these are the people that are going to give you give you money. Respond. Yep. So this is actually just it's pretty simple. Start off with how you're different how you're doing things be specific K could be just one thing can be two things, no more than no more than three things don't just tell the 10 different things that you're doing differently. Otherwise, it becomes a book and people's attention spans aren't very good, especially to Gen Zed era. So yeah, pretty simple. And how you ended up post or how you end that content? Is how, how this difference in what you're doing, helps them compare to the other organizations. And the rule of thumb when you're comparing like, don't name names, just just be general about that. Right? So it just doesn't sound is the thing psychologically doesn't sound like you're blaming me, but you know, but you're also saying something that's true.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Like we serve 20% more meals than the, you know, than other organizations in our county or something like that. Yeah,

[Kevin Kwan] exactly. Perfect way to say, then federal food programs are better than that. Right? So just generalize it. That's the rule of thumb. I say this all the time to my coaches, nobody wants to throw anybody under the bus for sure. But we, but we also kind of have to tell what's out there because people just don't know. So we just generalize it. Okay, last one, or sorry, second, last one. I know I said five. But I'll tell you why. The last one I didn't include. So the last the next one is called identity where this is your fifth level, the identity where it's more about how this cause fits with the traits and vision of the donors right off the top. Okay, so you're gonna have a line that, you know, we we rescue. We rescue stray dogs from reserves, because, you know, they're, they're tortured, there's something right? That maybe that's what you believe. So you start off like that. And then, throughout the post, what you're talking about is you're talking about how important these traits are. And then obviously, how you help. Right? So now what it's, what you're doing here and all of these is that you're always meeting them at certain beliefs, certain values, how you're different, and you're just really hitting all those different things in your first four lines. Storytelling here is an excellent way of capturing this level, because through story, the traits and the I'll use or lived through somebody else. Okay? Now, the last piece I didn't include, I didn't say six, I said five. But six is really easy. Everybody knows how to do this. It's the easiest

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] the writers throwing those bonus tips. Bonus, Yes,

[Kevin Kwan] bonus tip. But honestly, this is the easiest to read. This is called, I call it a coach aware like Pro, but you can call it a cause where so they're aware of the cause they're aware of you, I'm all in I know your values. And really, this is just, hey, we're doing this drive, click here to donate. So our goal is to push everybody up as close to cause aware as possible before hopefully before your next marketing campaign.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] So here's the 100 million dollar question, Kevin, right, that I'm sure you get as you work through this with all of your clients as well, how much of each type? Am I supposed to be putting together? Like, How often should I be talking about each thing? Because with six steps, right, it can feel a little bit overwhelming. I think the 8020 rule is a thing that comes out a lot, but kind of how do we think about because these are great, this is a great framework to think about building a solid, sustainable business. So how do we think about which posts we do? How often? How do we kind of manage them?

[Kevin Kwan] Yeah, great question. So what how you want to think about it is because we're leading, like distinct content needs intention, and it needs to move people right in their beliefs. So how do you plan how much is all actually based on when your next big offer campaign is your next push? So let's say, I don't know, it's April 19. Right now, and the date of this podcasts or this recording? Let's say you're going to do a big push on May 3. OK, let's just say that. So from there, okay, if I know I'm going to do a big call to action, asking for donations or an event, okay, whatever it is, then I'm actually going to start planning backwards from that. So now I'm going to ask myself, Okay, well, what do they need to know before they want to attend or donate? And I'm working down the line, because remember, the buyers are at process awareness above. So that means before I say, Hey, do you want to join this thing? Do you want to attend this event, they need to be minimum at promise aware. So from there, I just plug in how much of once aware I need so maybe, I don't know, this week, I'll do two wants aware next week, I'll do three symptoms aware. And then the week after I'll do a couple of promise aware. And then then there's my marketing campaign or my offer. So

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] bottom of the plate. And I love that the reverse engineering is is golden, but you are then needing more time to lead up for the bottom of the triangle than the top right? Because the ones at the top are going to be a much easier sell. So kind of backing it up. And then just knowing that you might need to have, you'll probably always have more of the bottom of the triangle. The bottom two, three, right? Always.

[Kevin Kwan] Yeah, just think about those people are like, just not not aware of the cause. But they want to give them what they feel like. They feel like they want to do something.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, always. I have one last question for you before we kind of wrap this up. And that is a fear that people have that will if I'm saying a lot of stuff about what organization is those people that already know us are going to be like, Oh, this is boring, or you're saying the same stuff over again, or we already know this. So like, how do we kind of change our mindset around content creation and understanding that putting the same messages out there over and over again, is not a bad thing. And that hitting multiple people in multiple phases within our content is not a bad thing. Also, like we're not going to alienate those people that are at the top ready to buy.

[Kevin Kwan] Yeah, no, great question there. And I get this question a lot too. So first off, the the logical part is not 100% of people will read 100% of your stuff out of the 100% anybody's gonna read it, you're always gonna get a small percentage and people skim as well. So like you could say, like for example, we run webinars and we can say that like literally we talk about the program multiple times we say the same thing multiple times when I say multiple times is about three to five times and we still get the same question emailed to us. So yeah, most people are half Lessing which means even more people are half reading. Cool. So that's the logical part yet we know that blah, blah, blah. The other thing is the when you kind of adopt the system of like writing to the bliss, rather than you know, you know, following like a pain or or whatever. If they believe in that, there it's going to catch their interest no matter what level They are if it interests them. And that's the great thing about content marketing first, before you make offers, it's like a permission based marketing tool, I'm not putting a gun to your head to read this, if it captures your attention, you'll read it. If it doesn't, you'll keep scrolling by and waiting for the next post or the next blog. Like in my group, I pretty much talk about content and sales all the time. But I talked about in different beliefs based off who I'm targeting. And I don't have CTAs. But some people will come in, sometimes they get a lot of likes. Sometimes they get no likes.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, that's the that's the joy of content is also the testing and not always knowing what's going to hit with the right audience. Like you might write something, this has happened to me, I pushed out podcasts, and I'm like, this is the best thing I've ever recorded, like, people are gonna go gangbusters over this, and it's crickets, and then stuff that I'm like, this was good, but maybe not the best thing we've ever done. And it will like, blow up. And I mean, there's a lot of factors to that, right. But you never really know until you start to test some of those different belief structures and the way that you're talking about content, what your audience is really going to resonate with. Yeah,

[Kevin Kwan] and you know, the greatest thing now that we have, you know, the online space and social media compared to 20 years ago, when you had to do mail outs to pay a buttload of money offs for stamps, and all that stuff. Like kind of what you're saying to me is that you get almost instant feedback and direction. So like, Huh, that's a clue. That's a clue to sharpen your message for free. Yeah, yeah.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] I love that. Okay, well, this framework is amazing. Would you just reiterate like in real quickly, like the five plus level?

[Kevin Kwan] Bonus, yes, yeah. marketing tactic to form a framework. Okay, so at the bottom, we got once where these are the people that only know what they want. And they're not sure about, you know, what's out there, in the symptoms, that some of the people that we're helping or animals that we're helping that are experiencing, so we got to meet them on what they want. Next one is what we call symptom aware, symptom aware is the symptoms of whoever the causes for okay, you're writing on those symptoms. Next one is promise aware, it's more about like, what the promises that they are that they've been exposed to of other nonprofit organizations. Process aware. That's how you do things differently, what you do how you allocate money, whatever that is, well, however you do things different to help. The next one is Identity Aware, Identity Aware is how the cause fits with the traits, the visions and the values of the donors, right, right up top. And then we got the bonus six to one, is the cause aware. And these people just they know who you are, they know what it is. They just basically know, like, how much you want for me?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] What's the ones we want more of? For sure. I love that. Well, Kevin, this was amazing. And I just love your approach. And I think this mindset around how we write content is going to really resonate with nonprofits, because that's our heads are in that space all the time. So now you've just given them a framework to really just take that to the next level. If people want to connect with you, they want to learn more about the work you do and kind of this framework that you've created. How do they do that?

[Kevin Kwan] Yeah, you can. I'm mostly active on Facebook, so you can follow me on Facebook, just Kevin Kwan. I believe the link should be Kevin Kwan material, you'll be able to see what I do. Because that my profile picture what I do, and I'm or I'm on the Instagram at the Kevin Kwan underscore.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] And we'll have all of those linked up in the show notes as well at the first click.net/ 204. So you can grab all those links for Kevin, also, thank you so much for being here. This was this was awesome.

[Kevin Kwan] Oh, awesome. Thank you for having me. So much

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] goodness, in that episode, thank you so much for listening, Kevin gave us such a great breakdown of how to utilize the content and create content that's going to be meaningful, and help us with our organizations. Again, I feel like this belief structure and this belief shift mentality is really going to help you think about how you're creating content and think about what you're putting in that content, whether it's a podcast or a social media post or a blog post. We don't just need to think about content as Okay, let's go create content. Let's think about it from the space of how is it really going to help us move our donors up the ladder and into being donors to be at that top level where all we have to do is send them that message and they're like, Yep, I'm in what do you need?

Again, you can grab the shownotes at https://thefirstclick.net/204 Make sure you subscribe wherever you listen so you don't miss out on a single episode. They come out on Tuesdays, and SUBSCRIBE And leave us a ring view if you don't mind, we'd love to get your feedback and hear what you think of the guests and the show. You can also watch video versions of these episodes at https://thefirstclick.net/youtube Oh, many places to check us out. We are here for you. Any questions, comments, thoughts feedback on this episode? Send them to us at hello@thefirstclick.net I would love to respond to you. It is coming from me. And thank you so much for being here. We'll see you in the next one.


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