Ep 313 | Setting a Strong Search Engine Strategy for Long Term Growth with Steven Schneider

Are you struggling to attract more visitors to your nonprofit's website? In this episode, I sit down with Steven Schneider, co-founder and CEO of Trio SEO, to explore the power of search engine optimization (SEO) for mission-driven organizations. We discuss why SEO is a crucial long-term strategy for increasing your online visibility and connecting with potential donors and supporters.

Building a Foundation for Sustainable Growth

Steven shares insights on:

• Why SEO is like investing in your retirement account for your nonprofit
• The importance of patience and consistency in your SEO efforts
• How to balance short-term paid strategies with long-term organic growth

Practical SEO Strategies for Nonprofits

Discover actionable advice for improving your website's search rankings:

• Crafting content that aligns with what your audience is actually searching for
• Leveraging free tools like Google Search Console and Google Analytics
• Optimizing your Google Business Profile for local nonprofits

Measuring Success and Adapting Your Approach

Learn how to:

• Track your SEO progress using key metrics and tools
• Identify which content is resonating with your audience
• Adjust your strategy based on real data and user behavior

Overcoming Common SEO Challenges

We address potential hurdles in implementing an SEO strategy:

• Balancing SEO efforts with other marketing priorities
• Staying motivated during the initial “sandbox” period for new websites
• Adapting to changes in search engine algorithms and user behavior

Whether you're new to SEO or looking to refine your current approach, this conversation offers valuable insights to help you increase your nonprofit's online visibility and connect with more supporters.

Want to skip ahead? Here are some key takeaways:

06:28 Understanding Organic vs. Paid Traffic Learn the difference between organic search results and paid advertising, and how they can work together in your digital strategy.

12:15 Essential SEO Tools for Nonprofits Discover free and paid resources to help you research keywords, analyze your website's performance, and track your progress.

19:36 Creating Content That Ranks Explore strategies for developing blog posts and web pages that address your audience's needs and align with popular search terms.

26:15 Optimizing for Local Search Understand how to leverage your Google Business Profile to improve visibility for local nonprofits and events.

Don't miss this opportunity to learn how SEO can help your nonprofit reach more people and make a bigger impact. Tune in for a conversation that could transform your approach to online visibility and donor engagement.

Resources

Google Ad Grant

Google Search Console & Analytics

SEMRush

Ahrefs

Full Transcript

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] You can't convert people on your website if you don't get them to your website. And search engine Optimization or SEO is one of the ways that you can increase traffic to your website, get more people consuming the content, building trust, engaging with you, taking an action, whether that be make a donation, whether that be sign up for your newsletter, buy a ticket, whatever it might be. So that is what we were talking about today. So some really foundational ways to think about your SEO strategy for beginners. So there's not a whole lot of crazy tech things in this episode, but so much good stuff as far as what you need to do to lay the groundwork, how you can pay attention to what's working and what's not, and how SEO can really lay the groundwork for your long term growth. You're here for the long haul, so let's put strategies in place that are going to help you get there. And to have this conversation we are joined by my guest Steven Schneider. Stephen is the co founder and CEO of Trio SEO, an agency that helps B2B brands design and implement ROI focused SEO strategies. Before Trio SEO he co owned a portfolio of 40 blogs, managed 400 articles monthly and scaled to seven figures via SEO. No paid ads, social media or other strategies. Today Trio SEO creates content that converts browsers into buyers. Their team manages everything. The process is 100% hands off for the founders and CMOs. The so he's got some great strategies to share with you. You're going to love it, I know you are. And it will help you also understand kind of maybe what questions you want to ask or how you should engage with people that are helping you do this work. So let's jump into it before we do it is brought to you by Do Good YOUniversity. Do Good YOUniversity is a membership that I am so excited to be invited into. It is a community of small to medium sized nonprofits who are just trying do the thing. It's full of on demand content from everything from grant writing to marketing to fundraising, board, governance, productivity, HR, all of the things. And you can watch anything live whenever you want. But Patrick Kirby, the founder and I go live every single week to answer your questions. You can come hang out with us, see what other nonprofits are struggling with here, some solutions and ways that we're helping them through fundraising and marketing and really just be around a community of people that are doing what you're doing every single day. You can learn more and get 2 weeks free at thefirstclick.net/dgu letter u but I hope you'll join us. And I can't wait to see you soon on one of our live calls. Let's get into the episode.

You're listening to the Digital Marketing Therapy Podcast. I'm your host, Sami Bedell Mulhern. Each month, we dive deep into a digital marketing or fundraising strategy that you can implement in your organization. Each week, you'll hear from guest experts, nonprofits, and myself on best practices, tips and resources to help you raise more money online and reach your organizational goals.

Hey, friends, please join me in welcoming. Stephen Schneider to the podcast. Steven, thanks for being here today.

[Steven Schneider] Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, well, we're talking SEO or Search Engine optimization. It is one of the acronyms that I have learned that while it's in my vernacular all the time, it is not in everyone's vernacular. We haven't talked about it in a while. So I'm excited to have you here. But before we kind of jump into some strategies and some topics, like why SEO for you? Why is this a strategy that you think is important for nonprofits to have in their. In their toolbox?

[Steven Schneider] Yeah. I can only speak from my own experience, and I think that the reason that SEO was such a, like, aha moment for me was that I was in college and trying to figure out what to do with my life. And, and like many people, I didn't really have a path in mind. It was just kind of stay in school until I get my graduate, then I get my master's, and then like, I'll figure it out by then. And thankfully, my friend and soon to be mentor at that time showed me that he was making money online passively through free traffic. Free traffic. And as a result of that, he was able to use SEO and leverage Google in such a way that just brought traffic consistently day after day. And it started to compound from that kind of side of things. And so I just quickly realized how much leverage came with SEO. It's like if you do a lot of upfront work and you're willing to pay the play the patience game, and you're willing to just kind of like, you know, sit on your hands for a little bit, do the basic principles, like more of the easier stuff. Like, it's this snowballing casket effect that just brings customers to your site without you even paying for it. Like, from a paid ads perspective, I.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Love this so much because that's definitely how we approach our marketing strategies holistically for our clients. And here on the podcast is like slow and steady wins the race. You're not here just to make a quick buck. And if you are, those strategies you're using are going to stop working just as quickly as they start working and you're just gonna play that catch up game. So I love that you're saying this is a long game that we're playing here. But every little thing that you do eventually is going to steamroll. So I think that's really important for us to understand that we're building foundational things here that are going to work for a long time as opposed to trying to do a bunch of things that might not work for a long time. So we're on the same page there for sure. So before we kind of touch on a few things, I wanted to just ask you, like, could you maybe share some definitions like, you know, organic traffic versus direct traffic, like, just so we can kind of understand when we're working on these strategies what that, what that is doing for our website traffic.

[Steven Schneider] Yeah, for sure. So direct traffic would be anybody that types in your, your brand or your direct name into the search bar just goes immediately to your website. So easy example is like, if you're going to Amazon and you're just typing Amazon.com in your search bar, like that's a direct traffic source. The alternate to that would be organic, where if you're searching for the product, maybe it's like, maybe you're looking for like a new pair of hiking shoes and you're typing like hiking shoes for men, size 10. And when you throw that into Google, you then be directed to an organic or a more natural placement that then would take you to Amazon. So it's those results that appear on the first page of Google that you see that don't have a little sponsored kind of tag next to it, which would be a PPC play. So these are what we call organic showcasing of ranks or rankings based on keywords and the keywords you type and how those two kind of connect.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, well, and I want to say too, like, search is. And your website traffic is a numbers game, right? Like, the more people you have coming to your site, the more likely you're going to have those conversions. Now, it's not as simple as that. Your website obviously has to have the right setup in order to convert customers or poor visitors once they're there. And we're not going to talk a lot about the Google Ad Grant, but I do always mention it whenever I can because most people don't know that it exists truly. And as a nonprofit, you have an ability to have that top placement much faster with less money because you get $10,000 for free from Google Ads. Now there's work that goes into it. We were talking about this before that we both, Steven and I do not do PPC paid ads. So it's a whole nother thing that you have to learn, but just it does give you that top placement and you have that advantage that other businesses don't have. So just keep that in mind. There's other podcast episodes we'll link up that can talk more about that, but it is part of this overall strategy. So without getting too much into the weeds, could you maybe just talk a little bit about how you see like a paid approach working in conjunction with organic traffic or like, what types of things we might want to think about from the website side of things?

[Steven Schneider] Yeah, so the main thing is kind of like the, the PPC play or the paid ads approach is going to be your, your short term, quick result strategy. You're obviously paying for a spot in Google that's even higher than organic search, like ppc. You get the immediate top thing and then organic is displayed below that. So you're paying and trying to compete against others in your space. And that's going to come with a much quicker ROI or return on your investment for the keywords that you're bidding on. Whereas with the SEO play, it's a much longer, more delayed. I always say it's like the biggest game of delayed gratification that ever existed. But the benefit to that is it's free to do. You can presumably create content on your site, optimize your site, all of these kind of DIY things that allow you to capture or work toward a top spot for a given keyword without paying for every single click or bid in that space. Like, once you secure a top spot, you could easily live there for months without even changing anything on your site. So it's a really, really advantageous play that if you just work toward it and you kind of are patient, you kind of can capture a lot of that traffic for free.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah. Okay, so when we talk patient, this is the question I get all the time when we build a website. Well, when will I rank on the first page of Google? And I know you don't have the magic answer, but what are we looking at right now? Because I know the timeline and I know there's a lot of things that come into play, but what are we talking about with patience? Like, how long are we really going to have to kind of wait? And what types of Things might we have to do in order to make sure we're continuing to build up higher in those rankings?

[Steven Schneider] Yeah. So if you build a website from scratch, say you go to WordPress or Squarespace tomorrow and click Publish, you actually are what's you're in this thing called Google Sandbox. It's kind of like this protected area based on Google's ranking parameters where you have to gain the trust and time in order to even start getting that SEO traffic. So brand new sites, I would expect anywhere from six to nine months, depending on how well optimized it is. Like if you are a top SEO, you can probably get it ranking in six months. If you're very new to that world, I would expect nine to 12 months. Very realistically, the big thing that really determines how quickly you can rank based on what you're doing to your website is the domain age, like how old your website is. So if you're a 20 year old, 30 year old nonprofit, you have much more credibility in your space and much more trust with Google. And so changing something on your site is going to be quickly picked up on and easily shown to others. And then the other thing too is just how much authority you have in your space relative to your competitors. And so when I say authority, the best thing to think about is like how much you know, trust or expertise you bring to the table. And that's just acquired through relationships and getting other people to vouch for you online.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah. And to get more specific, the vouching for you online is what would be considered a backlink. Right. Like another website with good reputation sharing your content and linking back to your website. I'm sure you've all gotten emails from people saying, hey, can we publish a blog on your website? And are like, will you add our links here? So like there's lots of strategies there, but I love that. And what I also love about some of the the things with good strong SEO is that it is just what you should be doing anyway. You should be sharing authentic content. You should be sharing with people why you're trustworthy. That's how you're going to get more donations into. You should be building relationships with other organizations. People love collaborations. It also shows donors and the people you serve that you are here for the long haul, that you're going to do the right thing, that you're trustworthy. So everything you're talking about, yes, is specific to the website, but is stuff that we should be just thinking about big picture with everything we're doing in our organization.

[Steven Schneider] No Absolutely. And that's kind of what I try to remind clients is that, you know, nobody gets into business or starting a nonprofit in order to finish the race, so to speak, in six months or a year. And so anybody who's in a perspective of wanting to make a change long term in their industry or space is usually attached to some sort of mental timeline that is in years, not weeks and days. And so developing that brand perspective and creating those connections and those allies in your space should be a natural part of just how you do business overall, like you said. And so I think that the more it's ingrained in kind of a natural part of your ongoing strategy, the less it feels like it's this SEO work and the more it just becomes like, hey, I'm on this podcast talking about xyz. Like, if you publish this on your site and link to our website in the show notes, like, that's a backlink per se. But it's not like I'm doing SEO strategy first. You know, it's a very kind of like, do a good thing. And that's kind of the reciprocal effect of that outcome. That's how I look at it.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, you're here to provide value. I love that. Okay, so I know we're saying it's going to take, you know, let's just say it's going to take us a year, which is actually a shorter timeline than what I expected you to say, but that's great. But how do we know that we're at least pushing the needle forward? Like, where do we get the information about how we're ranking? Because I know people search is all different. So if I search, if I just go into Google and search for a brand, it's going to show up differently for me than it's going to show up for you. Based off location, based off of search history, all that good stuff. So how do we actually know that we're kind of pushing the needle forward in this process?

[Steven Schneider] Yeah. So I'll start by saying that if you are an established website, you can probably see results in 90 days or maybe six months. So it's much quicker. And you can get all that data from Google Search Console and Google Analytics. They're free tools straight from the source of Google. And all you have to do is implement a, a piece of code essentially in your site and it will just start communicating and give you all that information so you can look at what keywords are actually generating clicks to your site and where those people are going. Maybe it's two specific Pages, et cetera, how many impressions, clicks, what regions people are coming from, whether they're on mobile or desktop. And so a lot of information is free. But when it comes to keyword research and trying to create a strategy first and then set out to accomplish that, strategy tools like SEMrush, Ahrefs, like those are top tier tools and so you can find that data and making, you know, a legitimate strategy or use case for saying, hey, we want to go after this keyword, we want to connect with this sort of audience and here's the type of content that it takes to succeed and this is what they're expecting to get on the other side of that. So it's more or less trying to understand your ideal audience first and foremost and then just meeting them where they're looking at and how you can kind of like, you know, outshine your competitors in that same space.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, and I think this is a really hard thing for people to understand too, is that like when we're doing our work, we use our own words, like, we use our own jargon for like what it is that we do. So like we use terms, SEO. I'll use terms like SEO or whatever with my clients and some of the members in our membership and they get super confused because that's not what they're, they're, they would be searching like how do I rank higher in Google? They're not going to say how would I do better? SEO, Right, right. So I think the great part about that research, and maybe you can lend some other tips, is we have to remove ourselves from the situation and it's like, this is the problem we're solving. But how do they talk about it? I think that's a hard concept for people to grasp when it comes to like creating content that's going to generate the traffic that you want because you know that, who that audience is. But this is what they say. They say this, not that, you know, yeah, 100%.

[Steven Schneider] I mean, that's kind of the biggest puzzle in my life is trying to work with clients and work in an industry that I have zero knowledge about, and then having to figure out all of those kind of nuances that go into it. The nice part about it is though, if you're using those tools like Ahrefs or Semrush, they allow you to look at all of the associated keywords on a given page. So the kind of, the misconception that is always nice to clear up is that we think about keywords as being like a one to one relationship. But at least as far as content is concerned. But if you write a blog, a blog could actually rank for a thousand different keywords. And so those are all doors or entry points for people to find you on your website. And so what we can do is actually go and look at one of your competitors blogs and say, well, here's the primary keyword that is probably the most opportunistic to target, but there's actually 999 other keywords that are all synonyms of that or other phrases or maybe FAQs that people are asking and arriving at that destination. So that's kind of like where what's the term called secondary keywords comes into play. And so you're trying to figure out, okay, here's the. The overarching topic. What's everything that would fall into that conversation that we want to incorporate in that conversation as well?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, no, I love that. Yeah. Because I think when we're creating content without having a goal in mind, it gets tricky. So we have to kind of understand what that conversion is and then how also I guess that would come into play, your secondary keywords with also how we're getting a little bit more technical here, but how you're linking your own content on your website. So having a good knowledge of what, okay, these are the main keywords that we think are going to perform for us. These are the secondary ones. So as we create other pieces around that, we can kind of also take our visitors through that journey of getting more of the content that they need. That's very specific and value added.

[Steven Schneider] Yeah, I don't want to, like, I don't think that. I don't want to complicate things, but nine times out of 10, if you just look at a competing article and you just Google what you want to rank for and say, hey, I think that it would make sense for us to connect with people who are searching for this. And you just do the legwork yourself as if you're that audience and you go and look at an article and say, oh, it's interesting that they're adding this keyword into their heading or they're talking about this. And like, yeah, just reverse engineer that process. Don't overthink it. And then create a piece of content yourself that is clear, concise, written in a conversational tone. Act as if you're almost having a conversation with somebody on the other side of it and you're not trying to write it for a robot and everything works out like it's not. There's a lot of technical hoops to jump through per se, but you can get really far without having to worry about that.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, no, that's good. And I think what also always surprises me is when I go look at my analytics, some of the content that I write that I think is like, killer and everybody's gonna love it. And then you go to your analytics and like, it's not ranking, but then something that you didn't necessarily think was amazing might be ranking really high. And so I think also paying attention to the content, like your own individual analytics, and see what people are consuming and do more of that, regardless of if you think that's like the most impactful thing because you want to get people there and then move them through. But if you don't get them there, then they can't get there in the first place. So, like, both sides of that coin are important for your strategy as you're kind of creating that content that's going to fuel. I mean, obviously everything still needs to be authentic, but, like, how often are. How often are you popping in to your analytics for those content ideas? Like, how often are you managing that? I'm assuming quite often, but I think most people don't get into their analytics very often.

[Steven Schneider] Yeah, I mean, if you're not someone like me, who's a big data nerd and this is all I do in my free time, you could probably check it once a month and be totally content. I think the more important thing, though, is that you are doing a little bit of upfront research to create content mindfully, because the most common pitfall that I see, that is like, the easiest thing to avoid is writing a blog because you think it's a good topic and then kind of like what you said, it doesn't perform and it's because no one's actually searching for that. And you're just kind of going off a gut feeling and vibe. Where had you done a little bit of research to know that? Like, oh, interesting. I didn't expect people to actually be asking about this. And then you just go after that. You're like, oh, this article is blowing up now because 300 people per month are searching for this. And so knowing where that story is being told and where demand is just avoids so many wasted efforts on everyone's end. It's so, so important because it also leaves a bad taste in your mouth from SEO. It's like, I wrote a hundred blogs and nothing happened. It's like, yeah, but nobody was looking for those hundred topics.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] So I think we often feel the same about social media, too. And the algorithms like content you're sharing and what you think is going to hit and what's not going to hit, and then you feel like you're putting your effort in for nothing. But I think to your point, that foundational piece and then having the patience, like you said at the beginning, to trust the process, how important is consistency in this space currently? How often do we need to be adding new things to our website in order to continue to build that trust and that authority?

[Steven Schneider] I would say have some sort of content strategy that allows you to publish something on a routine basis every month, whether that be one blog or five blogs, whatever that looks like. If you're a nonprofit who works in a local space, like maybe you are wanting to show up and connect with a local audience instead of more of a national online audience, you should almost be treating your business profile like your Google Business Profile, as a social media tool, because that's going to have more of an influence over your SEO locally than your website will. And so, you know, like, if you have, like you can add blog or content updates in your Google Business Profile and most people don't know how to do that, very easy to do other things would be adding new photos. So if you host an event over the weekend, take a couple photos, upload them to your Google Business profile as like an update or look what we did with our community sort of thing. And like that just kind of shows Google that, hey, you're alive and well and that you're active. And so that kind of, you know, spark will just make your profile come to life and put you higher, more visibility wise.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, because Google's kind of entering the same game as all of the social media platforms in that the longer they can keep you in the Google search interface, the more ad revenue they can generate. And so a lot of the features that you see there now with the AI results and all the interactive pieces are meant to keep you there. So that's a great tip to include or to have a robust Google Business Profile. But is that something that can also be helpful for if you have a national base, or is that something that really just only local businesses would want to invest time in?

[Steven Schneider] I think it's probably only beneficial for local only because the national presence is going to have more opportunistic keywords to target from that sense. Like, you know, there's going to be service pages or product pages or industry pages that you can create that have much higher intent for people to take action. Whereas if it's a local thing. It's usually people who are looking to get like information around an event on a weekend or you know, a where they can go and donate their time or whatever that kind of like in person thing is at that given time and date versus how do I research this thing that I'm thinking about doing two months from now?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, I love that. So now that we've been doing SEO for a little bit and we're adding content, we're starting to see traction and activity. We're being consistent with at least one piece of content. Like what does it take then moving forward? Like, is that it? Like, we just need to continue to stay consistent. Because the other thing that I'll hear from people is, well, I was ranking and now I'm not. Not what are they doing or what did I do wrong? Like how do we kind of continue to navigate the shifting of all of that once we've kind of already started to get our website ranking and up there.

[Steven Schneider] Yeah. So a huge part of that process comes down to the user experience. And what is the experience on page that visitors are met with once they land on your site. And so if your website was built in 2005 and hasn't been updated in 15 years, my guess is that it's probably time to update your website. The other thing would be, you know, if you are sending them to a landing page that doesn't have a lot of trust on it, then there's probably another reason that they're leaving and going elsewhere to get their information or needs met. If they're going to your blog and maybe you don't have an author bio and a picture of your team and who wrote it and a little bit about their expertise and why they can speak on this topic knowledgeably, there may be a disconnect in them not fully trusting what you have to offer there. So all of those little nuances that we don't typically think about, but we also really think about it, if we go to someone else's website and do the same exact thing in reverse, that's exactly how your business are kind of taking all that into consideration and that's what determines whether they're going to take action or not.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, well, and I think also not having an action for people to take, sometimes like something as simple as that, we forget to put on there because we think they're just going to read our content and fall in love with it and then that's it.

[Steven Schneider] That's easy.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] They'll know what to do, if only. Okay. And So I guess the last thing that I kind of want to touch on is, you know, yes, we're doing these blog pieces or content adding for organic search, but we don't want to just trust the process of that and just not promote it. Like, does promoting that content in other places also help kind of drive increased SEO for that? I mean, we don't just want to put some, we put work into it. You don't just assume everybody's going to come to it. So sharing in your email, sharing it on social media, all of those things, it's helpful to get it out there. But does that also then help give SEO visibility?

[Steven Schneider] Yeah, it's a, it's a marginal boost, I would say, relative to all the other things that you could be doing. But it's definitely beneficial to an ongoing strategy and just making sure that, you know, if your audience is living in LinkedIn primarily, like, there's no reason that you can't take a blog article, repurpose it, don't just copy and paste it word for word, but offer a summarized version of that with a link to read more on your website and then potentially a lead magnet or some action to take from there and out and work them through a funnel. But yes, the more you can be active on social media, the more you can be active in a newsletter, if you have a YouTube channel, all these other things that kind of feed off each other will definitely contribute long term towards your success.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Love that. Okay, well, as we wrap this up, Steven, is there any kind of last words of wisdom, motivation? I mean, I feel like if you're listening to this, you might just kind of be like, okay, well why would I do this as a strategy, it's going to take too long and I need results now. But trust me, trust Steven, trust us, it works. But any kind of last words of wisdom you'd like to leave listeners?

[Steven Schneider] Yeah, I think the biggest thing that I always like to try and convey is that your PPC strategy is going to be very similar to you getting a paycheck every month. You know, it's kind of like that quick, quick term need solution. Whereas your SEO is almost like you investing in your retirement account at the end of the day. Like, you know, it's something that you just need to do because you're going to look back and be like, dang it, I wish I would have done this so long ago, but I'm so happy that I did it. And so if you're doing that personally in your own life, and you know that it's just the responsible thing to do. That's kind of how you should be thinking about a PPC strategy and an SEO strategy. Because when you look back in five years and you see all your competitors who are crushing it on Google, you know, especially as things start to rank in ChatGPT and that becomes a really dominant search engine over the next couple years, you're gonna look back, same thing. And I wish I would have started sooner. So playing that slow, patient game is hard to bear through, but it's very, very positive at the end of the road.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yep. So good. Well, Steven, thanks for your time and sharing. All of these strategies, many that you all can implement now, they aren't, you know, crazy. But Steven, if people want to connect with you and learn more about you, how do they do that?

[Steven Schneider] Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm super active there. I post daily content. You can Also Google Treo, SEO t r i o-SEO.com, plus my name or one of the other. I always joke that if you can't find me on Google, I'm doing my job wrong, so you should be able to track me down. That's true.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] I love that. Well, and we'll link everything up, including all the different tools and resources that Steven mentioned in the show notes at thefirstclick.net/313. SO 313. But Steven, thank you so much for your time today.

[Steven Schneider] Thank you.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Wow. Okay, so many good things to take away from this episode, but really just love the focus on authenticity and building. Trust and how are we doing that. In the digital space and in person, all of that user experience, how our customers engage with us, how our donors engage with us, you're, I hope, starting to see that there's a familiar thread. That kind of gets woven through all. Of our strategies and that is the more you just show up authentically for your people, connect with the right people. Add value more, you're going to have. Long term growth and sustainability and SEO is no different. So have any questions about it, feel free to reach out. Hello@thefirstclick.net. I'd love to hear your key takeaway. If you're watching this on YouTube or if you have any questions, let us know there too. But make sure you subscribe. Wherever you listen. We're here every Tuesday with great topics around digital marketing, your website, fundraising, all of the things. I'm here for you. So again, grab the show notes at thefirstclick.net/313 and we'll see you in the next one.