Ep 307 | Converting High Net Worth People Into Donors with Ellen Christine Ruiters

Are you struggling to connect with major donors and secure those game-changing gifts for your nonprofit? In this episode, I sit down with Ellen Christine Ruiters, a nonprofit leadership and fundraising consultant who has helped great causes raise over a billion dollars globally. Ellen shares her insights on building authentic relationships with high-net-worth donors and creating a strategic approach to major gift fundraising.

Shifting the Mindset: From Asking to Partnering

Ellen emphasizes the importance of viewing major donors as strategic partners rather than simply sources of funding. We explore:

• Why today's donors want to be heard, understood, and involved in problem-solving
• The power of engagement design in creating meaningful donor experiences
• How to balance donor input with maintaining your organization's mission and direction

Practical Strategies for Cultivating Major Gifts

Discover actionable advice for nurturing relationships with potential major donors:

• How to identify and engage with donors who are ready to increase their giving
• The art of asking thoughtful questions and truly listening to donor motivations
• Creating personalized stewardship plans that respect donors' preferences

Leveraging Donor Insights for Organizational Growth

Ellen shares a brilliant strategy for involving donors in your nonprofit's development:

• How to conduct donor interviews that provide valuable feedback and insights
• Using donor input to shape your organization's growth strategy
• Turning engaged supporters into potential board members and major gift donors

Whether you're new to major gift fundraising or looking to refine your approach, this conversation offers valuable insights to help you build stronger, more authentic relationships with your top supporters.

Want to skip ahead? Here are some key takeaways:

06:28 Crafting Effective Donor Conversations Learn how to ask the right questions and truly listen to donor motivations, creating a foundation for meaningful partnerships.

19:38 Personalizing Donor Engagement Discover strategies for tailoring your approach to each donor's preferences and communication style.

30:47 Turning Donor Feedback into Action Explore Ellen's powerful technique for using donor insights to shape your organization's growth strategy and cultivate deeper commitment.

Don't miss this opportunity to transform your approach to major gift fundraising and create lasting partnerships with your most impactful supporters.

Resources

One:One and Team coaching. Join my MasterMind Group. Listeners can have FREE access to my course. The Thriving Nonprofit Leader

Full Transcript

[00:00:00 – 00:03:52]We all want to snag those big donors, the ones that are going to give us 10, 50, 150, a million dollars. Right? That would be amazing if we could get a bunch of those to keep our organization growing, thriving and building. And it's easier said than done. And so today I have Ellen Christine Ruiters here as she's going to share some ways to have better conversations, set better goals, and approach major gifts in a better way. How can you connect with them, engage with them, make it about them, and get them to choose your organization over another organization, or not even choose over another organization, but consider you for a larger gift? Now, this is a process that takes time. We all know this. But she's got some great strategies to talk through, kind of how to approach it, how to find these donors, and how to make sure that the connection is real and authentic so they do continue to give to you over a period of time. Ellen Christine understands the challenges of nonprofit leadership because she's been there. A nonprofit founder turned leadership and fundraising consultant, she has helped great causes raise over a billion dollars globally. Yes, I said billion. Through culture, building high net worth donor strategies, and impactful storytelling, Ellen empowers nonprofits and their leaders to thrive. Her program, the Thriving Nonprofit Leader, helps organizations and their teams rediscover joy in their work while attracting more high impact donors. We have such a great conversation today and I think that you're really going to like it. I think it's something different than what we've talked about a lot on this podcast. So yes, still talking about authentic connections, building relationships, sharing your mission, but listening and hearing what they have to say. But I think you're going to really like some of the tips and strategies that she shares because they're kind of, some of them are kind of stupid. Simple. So let's get into the episode, but before we do that, this episode is brought to you by Do Good YOUniversity. Do Good YOUniversity is the go to place for nonprofit leaders, development directors, board members to find community with other small to medium sized nonprofits, all while getting high impact support. I go live every single week with Patrick Kirby, the founder of Do Good YOUniversity and we answer your questions. We just chat with nonprofits that are going through the same things that you are every week. You have an opportunity to ask questions, get feedback from us and the other people in the room. And on top of that, you also have access to hundreds of hours of trainings and resources and videos and templates that cover things from grant writing to board governance to marketing to event fundraising. Anything that you need access to. We are kind of like your little Google, the Do Good YOUniversity Google. Anywho, head on to the firstclick.net/dgu Grab your link for a free two week trial. Come hang out with us for a couple of weeks and see what you think. And then it's just $50 a month from there. Totally affordable. And by implementing just one of the strategies that you learn inside the program, you will more than pay for your membership fees. If you have questions on if this is right for you, shoot me a message. Hello@thefirstclick.net I'd love to set up a quick call with you and talk to you about the program, show you what it looks like and see if it's the right fit for you. Again, that's the firstclick.net/dgu the letter U. Let's get into the episode.

You're listening to the Digital Marketing Therapy podcast. I'm your host, Sami Bedell Mulhern. Each month we dive deep into a digital marketing or fundraising strategy that you can implement in your organization. Each week you'll hear from guest experts, nonprofits, and myself on best practices, tips and resources to help you raise more money online and reach your organizational goals. Hey, friends, Please join me in welcoming Ellen Christine to the podcast. Ellen, thanks for being here today.

[00:03:52 – 00:03:55]Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited for our conversation. Yeah.

[00:03:55 – 00:04:10]And it's not often that I get to record with a fellow Minnesotan, so this is super fun also. But before we kind of jump into some strategies with major gifts, tell us a little bit about why you got into the nonprofit space and what you love so much about it.

[00:04:11 – 00:05:33]Yeah. The real honest answer is like, I was young and naive and I got on a plane and, and went to South Africa. I was gonna stay for three months and I ended up staying for eight years. And in that time, like, fell in love with the community and other community leaders and started a nonprofit that brought youth together. But when you're in your 20s, it seemed like a good idea to put a camp which kids were gonna come to on my credit card. And it was after that that I was like, this isn't going to work. I need to figure out how to raise money. And I was living in South Africa, but my connections were here and that's where the money was. And so that's how I got on this journey of how do I help people see the potential of the kids I'm working with and feel it so much so that they want to give to it. We were able to grow that nonprofit to reach 15,000 kids a year. And that took me. The ability to raise money has taken me around the world. So I have been able to work in multiple different countries on amazing profit, supporting some amazing projects, supporting many different nonprofits. So that's how I got into it. And I'm still doing it.

[00:05:34 – 00:06:29]No, I love it because our stories are very different, yet similar in that I started my first nonprofit in my early 20s with no business doing it either. Learn a lot, I think, when you kind of do it that way. And I feel like when we start, we just have this vision of like, well, I'm doing this really cool work, and I'm going to get these people to give us tons of money at the beginning, kind of help us work on this. Or if we're lucky enough, we have one large major donor, but it's the only one. And so we're fully reliant on them as our benefactor. And if they fall off, then we're were in trouble. So, you know, kind of what, you know, I know this is where you work. You work with major donors. That's how you support nonprofits and their fundraising. But kind of maybe just to kick it off, like, what's maybe the biggest myth surrounding fundraising within major gifts campaigns, or what's kind of the biggest mistake that people make when they're kind of moving more into that world?

[00:06:30 – 00:07:15]I hear a lot of people are so passionate about their causes. I mean, they've dedicated their lives to doing this day in and day out, and they're doing such great work that they think people are just gonna give them money. They're like, I'm gonna start this, and people are gonna see it, and they're gonna be so excited about it. People are gonna give me money. And then all of a sudden you get in it and you're like, wait a minute, we're doing such great work. Why are people not. Why are people not supporting us? And there's a frustration to that, and it's real because it is something that you care a lot about. So I think that is the biggest myth that kind of, if you build it, they will come.

[00:07:15 – 00:07:50]Yeah, it's so true. It's so true. Okay. So I think also what I'm seeing is a shift in how we're raising funds. So, like, the process is still the same, but the way that donors are interacting with nonprofits is different. So I think there's also, like, this interplay of, okay, well, maybe I've been doing fundraising for a long Time. And I've had great success with major donors, but things are starting to shift, and I'm still doing things the way that I used to do it, and I'm not having as much success. So what kind of shift are you starting to see with how people are giving their dollars?

[00:07:50 – 00:09:54]Yeah, so there's a huge shift, and it's going to continue, and we're starting to see it now. We're looking at one of the greatest wealth transfers in our history. You know, Forbes has been reporting about $84 trillion is going to be, you know, kind of moving down the family line. And those donors are different than their parents. They want different things. Today's donors want to be heard and understood and to see it from their perspective. They want to use their money to solve a problem. And yet it's tempting to go to donors and say, I want to convince you why you should give us this money instead of building a partnership that really looks at it as you are empowering another person to kind of live out their calling, to put purpose behind money, to be engaged in things that really matter to them. You know, there's a lot of statistics that talk about, like, well, you know, when we're connected, we're happier. And so that is the. I think that's where we're seeing more of a shift. And there's a desperation. I get it. I mean, it's like things are changing, and where is money and our grants and how are we going to do this? But it's an exhausting experience for donors to always be asked. They want to be strategic partners in this work, and they want to solve a problem. Problem solvers are happier than victims. And so when you get a people, a group of people who are tackling issues they care about, it breeds generosity.

[00:09:56 – 00:10:36]Yeah. Well, I think this is a positive for fundraisers, too, because whereas previously we were out making as many calls, cold calls, just reaching out to anybody who could possibly potentially give to us because they're of high net worth, and you're just kind of spinning your wheels, trying to go after everybody and hoping that then they stick around for the next year. I feel like now, while it's a shift, it's more like, okay, let's really think about who genuinely cares about what we're doing. Let's engage with them in a meaningful way. And my guess is that while you may have less of those conversations and less of those people, that the longevity of them giving to your organization is more consistent.

[00:10:38 – 00:11:58]You are 100% right. And so I use a strategy in engagement design. And so really looking at what type of engagement are you trying to provide for this individual and really ultimately for the family. A lot of it's not an individual making these decisions. It's families. And people want to. Parents want to pass on the value of giving to their kids. So think about the family or like the foundation and what are they wanting to do. And look at your year and create an engagement design that is really, really strategic. And so then you're only asking them once, you're asking them to consider a gift that's going to move the dial, that's going to have. You can go back and say like, here's some data, you can see a difference because of this gift. And there's a shift in our society right now. I mean even just think about how we're buying clothes. People are like, I don't know that I like this buying, you know, 30 shirts and you know, like buy like a one high quality thing. Translate that into like a donor's mindset.

[00:11:58 – 00:11:59]Yeah.

[00:11:59 – 00:12:04]You know, like invest in like a one high quality and invest at a higher scale.

[00:12:06 – 00:13:10]Yeah. Well, I love this because it's really just about what you're doing. I love that you said, how can you move the needle? That's kind of the motivation. If I'm going to participate at this level, I want to know that I'm helping you move the needle. And I'm seeing that. But I want to make sure people understand that when you're talking about the engagement plan like you're talking about, you mentioned only making the ask one time. That doesn't mean that you are not like there's still a high level of connection and communication that's happening throughout the course of the year. Right. So could you talk a little bit more about how we then continue to stay engaged and stay connected to them so that they're a partner. Because the other piece too that I'm thinking is when we say, okay, I want you to partner with us, we want you to be engaged in our organization. How do we draw the line between them then using that dollar to change the way that we, our organization runs or try to insert too much influence, like both of those. Both of those things need to kind of carefully go in tandem, I would think.

[00:13:10 – 00:13:22]Yeah. For executive directors or kind of the, you know, if you have a major donor portfolio, if you know you had this is your full time job, this is not for, this is not all of your donors.

[00:13:22 – 00:13:22]Right.

[00:13:23 – 00:15:28]This is like that really top percent that can give 80% of the funding and think about the engagement strategy being throughout the year. And so whether it's like the phone call or inviting them to volunteer reporting. I had a donor once say, please stop giving me things. Make the thank you be, tell me the impact. The best thank you you can give me is to tell me the impact that my gift is making and to be really creative in that. And that's where this work is so fun. Because how do we help people feel the impact? And that's combining data and story. But how do we make this the most fun gift they have ever made? Where are they going to be like, I want to do this again? This isn't just about, oh, there's a need and I have to meet it. And I think how you untangle are they having too much influence over where you're going is, you know, when you're deciding who these donors, these kind of top tier, high net worth families are, is make sure that the ask is you're presenting a problem that they have the ability to solve. And so it's not the entire organization, but it's a problem, you know, whether it's a program or whether it's, you know, you know, whatever the nonprofit is doing. So it isn't like their hands are in everything, but it's in the problem that you have presented. And that's the art of fundraising is what is that right? Number. How do you know what that is? And you know, so there's some strategy in that too, is figuring out how do you kind of get that right?

[00:15:29 – 00:16:47]Yeah, because, you know, I think about like an after school program and somebody might be more interested in the art side of things. Somebody might be more interested in the athletic side of things. Somebody might care more about the stem side of things. So like, having strategic partners in each of those areas can be really impactful. And I love that because you can brainstorm with them and make them feel like they're a part of the process. But then I love that you're just talking about data combined with storytelling because I think that's what really sets you up to be able to say to those folks, well, this is a great idea. I love that you're bringing this to the table and this is what we're seeing with the numbers. So let's figure out how we can maneuver it that way. So I think that's great. But I want to touch on, like when we talk about major gifts in the top, you know, 20%, that's bringing in the 80%, there's no like sweet magic number Right. So, like, if you're a smaller organization and you're looking for families or foundations to participate with, like, that might look very different than, like a, you know, multimillion dollar organization. So when we're kind of putting those numbers together, like, do we just take like the top, like, how do we start to put together, like, okay, this is what our major gift number is going to look like, so we can start to target and research the people that would be able to fit in within that range so we can make an appropriate ask.

[00:16:47 – 00:17:35]Yeah, well, I think that you have to build on what you have. So if we were to say, oh, every number is a $25,000 gift, for some organizations, that's not surprisingly, that's not considered like a major, major gift. And for other organizations, if they're only rate if their Highest giver is $500, that's not a realistic. And so if you're looking at, like, who is it in your portfolio that has been giving for a while that they give consistently? If you were to call them, they pick up the phone, you know, they, they come to events or they volunteer.

[00:17:36 – 00:17:36]Yeah.

[00:17:36 – 00:18:42]So they're indicating, they're, they're raising their hand in saying like this, so you're, you're not convincing and pulling like, oh, my gosh, or I'm going to chase you. These are people who are, you know, they've raised their, they've shown signs. You know, there's a scorecard that I often use just so you can kind of look at, like, you know, what, what signs are we looking for in that? And, you know, if someone's giving $500, you know, it's probably more realistic to be setting, you know, a $5,000 goal. And if somebody's giving $5,000, you know, maybe they are in a position to double it. I'm working with an organization right now. It wouldn't be realistic. It's not realistic to go ask the $500 donor to give $25,000, especially with, like, what we know about that donor base. That organization doesn't need millions of dollars, though. So.

[00:18:44 – 00:19:36]Well, I think it goes back to what do we need as an organization? What's going to be healthy for us? Like, I love that you said at the beginning, these are not your, this is not your entire donor database. And I love just starting with who you already have. And I think, like, when you're starting to kind of say, okay, well, we're ready to kind of grow into this major gift space, you know, we're building into this Strategy. Like do you even just start with conversations with some of your long term donors and volunteers and just say, hey, like this is where we're going with this organization. You've been with us for a while. Like, what would this look like for you? Or how could you maybe support us in hitting this next phase? Like, do you kind of reach out to them just very transparently and as you're kind of starting this so that you can even make them a part of the conversation or do you just kind of go in and make the ask?

[00:19:37 – 00:21:43]Yeah, I think they're. I would say don't go in and just make the ask. The first of all, the honor, honor the relationship and the person that don't spring and ask on anybody. Like if you say, let's go to coffee, don't have coffee, and then say, oh, can you give this money? People want to be respected. They want to know what they're walking into. But a strategy that I have found really successful is tell me about why you care about this organization. What is it about this mission that motivates you? What experience have you had that has kind of drawn you to this? And what you often find is the individual has, has experienced something that's not in their head. It's not like, oh, I, I theoretically know the data of xyz. They've maybe seen injustice and it move it, it moved them. They have a child who struggled with learning disabilities and so now they want to be given to these organ. Those are gold. Because that is giving them an opportunity to really live into their passion. Is. I think that is the first place to start is why do they care about this? And get them talking. You know, also a positive psychology will say the more you think about it, the more like why do I love this? The more you love it. You know, it's like, oh, once I say it out loud, like now I really. Yeah, this is something I really care about. And take great notes. I mean, you know, you know, have these conversations and I don't know if you get in your car, if you're meeting and write it down or can you make sure that you capture this information so you are remembering their why.

[00:21:44 – 00:21:45]Yeah.

[00:21:45 – 00:21:48]And you're moving and you're moving towards that.

[00:21:48 – 00:21:49]Yep.

[00:21:49 – 00:22:06]Is. And then find ways to continue to nurture that and listen. I mean some donors, I think we're also moving away from a trend of okay, donor development. People like you have to have X amount of meetings.

[00:22:07 – 00:22:07]Yeah.

[00:22:08 – 00:22:43]People. Most people are like, I don't want to go to coffee with you. Five times a year, you know, and so it's being like asking people, what type of information do you want? How often would we, how often would you like to meet? Do you want to meet in person? Do you want to meet as a family? How can I show what kind of information really helps you understand your impact? So you're moving the way they want you to move, and that's different than what most people are doing right now. So you stand out.

[00:22:44 – 00:23:49]Yeah, I think it's a highly personalized donor stewardship that I think is brilliant. And you might have a more structured plan for your donors at a certain level. And then once they hit a certain category or you're prepping them to hopefully move into that category, uh, it is highly specialized. And I love that because I have worked with clients before that are just, yeah. So rigid, like, well, this is our formula and this is what we do. And I, I, I love that. Kind of brings back to the shift you talked about at the beginning, where what we're seeing across the board is experience is what people care about, not things like you mentioned too, like, I don't want another hat or a piece of swag. Like, I want to know and feel touch, like what's happening. Um, and so I think it is important and it makes them feel like they're not just a number. It makes them feel like they are truly a part of what's happening. And so I think that is important for you to figure out your levels and how you're engaging with that group of people, because it's not going to be most likely. Well, especially for my listeners at this point, it's not going to be a hundred different people that you have to create customized experience for.

[00:23:49 – 00:24:29]No, no. And it shouldn't be. And you know, you have to know your data. I mean, if 80, if 20% is giving 80% of the money, think about those 20%, even if it's 5, that'll move the dial for your organization. I read somewhere about these multimillion dollar campaigns, it's usually the top 3% of the donors that create like 93% of the campaign. So those are your donor partners that we're listening to. And also, don't be afraid to ask, you know, what do you, what are we doing?

[00:24:29 – 00:24:30]Well, yeah.

[00:24:30 – 00:25:15]And where, where do you see room for improvement? And where would you like to see us in the next three years? There, there's a balance of the organization sitting behind closed doors and creating a plan and a vision. And then they almost feel like they have to sell it to their donors. And instead of I kind of know who wants to go where and if they can see their input in the direction of the organization, they are more likely to want you to help you succeed.

[00:25:15 – 00:25:50]Yeah, well, and I want to ask that point too. Like when we think about behaviors of donors and psychology of individuals, also understanding when you're having these questions like how like do you strategically kind of set them up also during a campaign for. I know these are the people that I want to go to first because they like to be the first ones to show up and they like that public recognition. And I know I need to go to these guys at the end because they like to be the ones to close the gap and be the heroes at the end of the campaign. Like, are you tracking all of that stuff too with these individuals? So you kind of know who to go to in what order as you're kind of working through your bigger campaigns.

[00:25:50 – 00:27:09]Yeah, no, you're so right. It's like the, it's kind of the difference between like a venture capitalist and you know, there are people who want to see you. They want to see you, the organization leverage their gift. So if they can be the campaign kickoff, like I can use this $20,000 to leverage other people to give. You are going to spark this generosity. There are other people who are like, I want to make sure that you're going to succeed before I put my money in. They're the ones who like, once I can see the finish line, I'll help you get across it. But I'm not going to give until I see the finish line in sight. And so you do have to know that about individuals and, and sometimes you can tell like who are the entrepreneurs, you know, the more risk takers, you know, and who and who has maybe been in a position, they've been there for 25 years. Those are your steady. That's not a universal truth. But there people give you signs of the risk takers and the ones who are going to kind of want that steady, that steady growth.

[00:27:09 – 00:27:15]Yeah, it's like the people that are always first in line at the Apple store for the brand new Apple product. Right. The early adopters, like, yes.

[00:27:15 – 00:27:25]Yeah. And then there's other people who are like, I want the data on, like, is that new Apple watch better? Is it worth it? You know?

[00:27:26 – 00:27:56]Yep. I love that. I love that. Okay. So kind of the last thing that I want to touch on because this has been really, really good is, you know, in our process. So like as we've kind of, we've started going through this. We have a handful of our major donors that we're continuing to stay connected with and nurturing. How do we then process? Because I love what you said earlier about just, like, starting from our existing base and continuing to work people up. So it's important to have that general donor stewardship plan, which we've talked about a lot on this podcast.

[00:27:56 – 00:27:57]Yes.

[00:27:57 – 00:28:17]But how do we kind of start to, like, kind of pick and choose people throughout the years and be like, okay, like, maybe this person. Like, do you just kind of randomly have phone calls with people and kind of take notes and listen and ask questions? Or how do you kind of pay attention to who you might want to start to move up that giving ladder and engage in a different, more significant way?

[00:28:18 – 00:31:28]Yeah, that's where having social, kind of social proof is really powerful. There's a place for donor research and not to figure out who are the richest people in your. I mean, we don't want to treat people that way, but you don't want to give people a problem they don't have the ability to solve. That's just kind of mean, right? Yeah. And so, you know, you kind of have to know, but are they generous? Are they giving to other organizations? Does somebody on the board know them? And what can they tell you? What can they kind of tell you about. About them? So I think that social proof is really powerful in how you make these decisions. I recently talked to someone who said, if a donor's calling me, there's someone I'm gonna steward. Like, you know, like. Like, if they're. I'm like, if they're in your phone, that is amazing. Like, if you've got their contact in your phone, like, well done. Like, they're one of your people. But if they're calling you to see how things are going and you have some social proof that they are generous and have a capacity, like, those are your people. And a great place to start is. I often start kind of before you launch a major gift campaign, is I go and interview people, and here's what I tell them. I want. Like, I want your insight. I want your feedback. How are we doing as an organization, and what obstacles do you see in the way of us growing? And ask them, can I come back to you once I've compiled this data and tell you what plan comes out of it? And what's so interesting is you talk to people, and then you can throw out the outliers, like, the people who just say, like, the most random, unattainable it's off mission. But oftentimes what you find is there are themes that this community or initiatives that this community wants to see, and they're telling us ways that we can improve. Now, you sit down with that information, you create a plan, maybe it's a growth strategy, and you go back to them and you say, I heard what you said. And it aligns with what our other donors are saying. And people in the field. Right. Don't just do the donors, but what are the people in the field say? What is your board saying? And then say, we have a plan. I'm going to share this plan with you. And where do you see yourself in this? If they've given you advice and said this is, they're way more likely to say, I do see myself in this plan and how I can help make it happen.

[00:31:29 – 00:32:28]Okay, this is brilliant. And if you take nothing else from this episode literally, this was just complete gold, what you just said. Because, yes, if somebody's saying, I see this as the struggle where you're not, and you can give them a way to solve it, and then they can be the hero in that story, that is brilliant. And also, I think, I'm sure this is a strategy you use even with not major donors, as you're having conversations with regular donors. Because I shouldn't say regulars with not major gift donors. Why this is so hard for me right now, I have no idea. We're just gonna go with it. You know what I mean? Anyway, even if you're having that conversation, you just ask, like, what challenges do you see for us at a lower gift level? You can still quickly come back. You'll likely have an answer for that, that you know that in our next conversation, I'm gon back and talk to them. They likely don't know about this part of our program or this work that we're doing. So I think it works like, that's such a brilliant strategy in general with conversations you're having at all levels.

[00:32:29 – 00:32:46]Yeah. Yeah. If you haven't set up the next time that you're going to connect in that meeting, you've missed something. So I just love being able to say, and also, Sami, one of the things people really like is, I heard what you said, and it aligns with what other people are seeing.

[00:32:47 – 00:32:47]Yeah.

[00:32:49 – 00:33:53]There is a confidence that that brings and it's very affirming to the community. And the other thing I will say, if you kind of take nothing else and you think about this approach, it's a brilliant way to get board members because if they have the insight to see obstacles, what do you think could get in the way of our success in the next few years and what's going really well? What do you love about us? You'll talk to people and always ask, can I come back to you and tell you after I talk to this other group. I've gone back and talked to people and said you articulated this so well and the vision of how we can tackle this issue. This you are. Everyone kind of saw or most people saw this as a problem, but you articulated a path out of it and we need people like you on the board.

[00:33:54 – 00:34:52]Yeah. I just think that what you're saying in this whole episode, what I love is that it's such an, I'm going to say easy in air quotes approach for organizations of all sizes, but especially for smaller organizations that maybe feel like they don't have the development team behind them or the structure or the experience. Because literally all you're saying is go set up meetings with thoughtful questions and listen, don't make it about you, make it about them. Listen, learn and then come back with the right pieces of your program that are gonna fit with the motivation. Like that. It's easy, it's not easy to get those meetings. It's not easy to make the whole thing come together. But, but starting with that foundation and building that as a habit within your organization, it's such an approach that anybody can do at any level of experience because you're basically just like, how do I be a good human to this other human who wants to do good things?

[00:34:52 – 00:35:10]Yes. And how do I get over myself? How do I get over my anxiety of picking up the phone and calling somebody. Calling somebody and saying, gosh, you've been faithful to this organization. I, I want your insights.

[00:35:10 – 00:35:10]Yeah.

[00:35:11 – 00:36:51]You know, ask people for their opinion and they'll give you money. Ask people for money, they're going to give you their opinion 100%. And, and, and just piggybacking on that. Once you find these themes and you were to, I use an influence map. So you take these, you take these themes and you know, there might be 15 themes. Well, you can't address 15 things, but you can start to say which one influences the other and then you end up with like two or three because you're like, oh, if we solve this problem, we're going to be able to solve all of these problems. And donors are savvy. Most, they're, if they're a high net worth family, you know, unless they kind of inherited, they're Savvy. They're, they're. They know how to. They want a business mind. It's not just like, I'm going to throw money out because it's the. That is super strategic and it's effective. And all of this, like all that we have talked about, should not be more things you have to do. This should be an approach that says, now you're going to do less and you're going to have better results. So we're trying to take your time and make it more efficient. Because when people say, I don't have time to do this, that's not the right mindset. It is do this. And you're going to free up time because you're going to have greater. You're going to have. It's going to free up time.

[00:36:52 – 00:37:24]I love this. Yeah, I love this so much. And I think it's a shift in approach, but it makes so much sense. And I think that that is such a great way to wrap this up and just do the foundation. Do the work focused on the things that are going to bring you the donors and retain those donors. And I think maybe kind of shut up the noise. But, Ellen, thank you so much for sharing your insights and strategies with everybody. And I know you've got some other great free resources. So if people want to learn more about you, connect with you, and more about the work you do with other great organizations, how can they do that?

[00:37:24 – 00:38:26]Yeah, you can go to the thriving nonprofit leader. The thriving nonprofit leader, and you are going to have access to. There's. I have a free course on there. And the other thing I want to do, I think that you're doing such great work. And when we think about, like, oh, hiring a consultant, like, oh, I can't afford that. So what I've done is created these cohorts of building and cultivating a major donor portfolio. And so if you're listening and you're like, I would like to be a part of that cohort, I'll give them 50% off if they're your people. So let's spread the love. And that's a great way to kind of get into this work and have like, oh, I have someone to talk to. I have a group to engage with and learning some strategies and it boosts your confidence. So you can go on the website and you can enter in DMT when it says you have a promo code and you're going to get 50% off.

[00:38:26 – 00:39:01]Yeah. I just want to reiterate that having a cohort or a group of people that you can rely on is so impactful. I started my business and immediately went into a mastermind because I couldn't figure out how to do certain things and just knowing you're not alone. And I think that the development space underutilizes collaboration with other development professionals because we feel like they're in competition with us. So I love that you're doing this because I think it's so important and so needed. So we'll share all of those links in the show notes at thefirstclick.net/307 But Ellen, thank you again so much for being here.

[00:39:01 – 00:39:03]Yeah, thank you for having me.

[00:39:04 – 00:39:49]So grateful for Ellen to be here and share all of her amazing insights. I hope that you enjoyed them as much as I did. You can find everything that she talked about, all of her additional resources in the show notes at thefirstclick.net/307 I would love for you to leave a comment over on our YouTube channel @DigitalMarketingTherapy. Let me know what your biggest takeaway was from this episode. What did you learn that you're excited excited to implement today? We want to make sure you get into implementation mode and not just learning all these different strategies and not sure where to start. Thank you so much for listening. Make sure you subscribe so that you don't miss a single episode. We've had a few bonus episodes drop this year and that's the way to find out and make sure that you know that they're coming. And I really appreciate you taking time. I will see you in the next one.