Ep 303 | Avoiding Burnout By Building Community with Rob Tracz

Are you feeling overwhelmed, stressed, and on the brink of burnout in your nonprofit work? You're not alone. In this episode, I sit down with Rob Tracz, a personal performance coach dedicated to helping driven individuals achieve success without sacrificing their well-being.

Rob shares his powerful journey from severe burnout to becoming a champion for sustainable success. He reveals how his relentless pursuit of “shadow success” led to deteriorating relationships, declining health, and missed opportunities with loved ones.

Key Insights on Preventing Burnout

Learn practical strategies to recognize and combat burnout:

• Identifying early warning signs in your routine and habits
• The importance of intentional consumption – both nutritional and digital
• Creating a support system through the “team triangle” concept
• Balancing challenge and recovery in your work

Supporting Your Team and Organization

Discover how leaders can foster a culture that prevents burnout:

• The critical role of open communication and psychological safety
• Implementing seasons of intensity and recovery in your organizational calendar
• Leading by example in prioritizing well-being

Personal Strategies for Thriving

Rob offers actionable advice for individuals:

• Introducing small, manageable challenges to reignite motivation
• Leveraging your personal values and strengths to guide decision-making
• Building a network of mentors, peers, and cheerleaders for support

Whether you're a nonprofit leader looking to support your team or an individual seeking to reclaim your passion and energy, this episode provides valuable insights to help you thrive in your mission-driven work.

Don't miss this opportunity to learn how to create sustainable success and avoid the pitfalls of burnout. Tune in for a conversation that could transform your approach to work and life.

Want to skip ahead? Here are key takeaways:

04:09 Recognizing Early Signs of Burnout Rob shares personal indicators he overlooked, including falling into mundane routines and neglecting intentional consumption habits.
14:38 The Team Triangle Concept Learn about creating a support system with mentors, peers, and cheerleaders to navigate challenges and maintain accountability.
22:39 Balancing Push and Recovery Strategies for determining when to persevere through challenges and when it's time to pivot or let go.
28:53 Creating a Culture of Well-being Tips for leaders on fostering an environment that prioritizes communication, support, and sustainable success.

Full Transcript

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Fundraising, working at a nonprofit, running a nonprofit, starting a nonprofit, it's tough right now, and it feels very overwhelming, because there's just a lot of things happening in the world that we can't control, and this is the case really all the time, even though it might feel a little heightened right now. And so today, my guest is Rob Tracz, who's going to talk through some mindset things and building resilience within you and your team and building community around you so that you can avoid that burnout, get the work done and enjoy the work right? That's really what we want to do. Get back to that joy. And today's guest is someone who is truly dedicated to helping entrepreneurs and high achievers optimize their performance, prevent burnout and achieve true success in both life and business. Rob is a personal performance coach who specializes in guiding driven individuals through the challenges of balancing success with personal well being with his unique approach, Rob helps business owners, leaders and professionals break through stagnation, align their personal and professional goals and create sustainable success. His coaching is built on six core principles, resilience, resilience, intentionality, clarity, optimization, social support and opportunity, giving his clients the tools they need to thrive under pressure while maintaining a fulfilling life beyond coaching, Rob is an engaging speaker, strategist and entrepreneur who is passionate about helping others unlock their full potential without sacrificing what matters most. Now, I know we talk a lot about digital strategies on this podcast, but if we aren't in the right mindset, if we don't have the right support systems around us, if we're just feeling like we're burnt out and we can't do the work effectively, or we're just running from task to task, then we're not being effective in our job, and we're not able to really increase that impact, share that impact, and grow our organizations and ultimately support as many people as we can. So I really hope that you'll give this episode a listen, especially if you just need a mental boost right now, and to kind of have somebody in your corner who can cheerlead for you and give you some strategies for how you can move through your day to day life, your business life, personal life, and just feel better overall. So I hope you give this episode a listen. But before you do it is brought to you by do good university. This is a very fun and unique platform, online learning system, just for nonprofit leaders and fundraisers like you, small to medium sized organizations that have small teams, limited resources and really just want to know how to navigate through the day to day challenges of growing and scaling their organization. Now we have on demand, works, worksheets, templates, lessons that you can learn on everything from board management to grant management to marketing. And we also come together in community, live once a week where you can get your questions answered or just hang out and listen to what other people are working on and get ideas for how you can take and make the most of the marketing and offline fundraising in your organization. So I hope you will check it out. Patrick Kirby, and I love this program so much and the nonprofits that are in it, and we would love for you to join us and you can learn more by going to thefirstclick.net/dgu, the letter U, and grab a two week free trial while you're there, so that you can come and join us, see what's inside and have some fun after that, it's only $50 a month, so if you take away one strategy and get one small donation. You're covering the cost, but you can grow exponentially. So I hope that you will join us again. That's thefirstclick.net/dgu, get all the details. Listen to Patrick and I talk about the platform a little bit more. And if you have any questions, feel free to reach out hello@thefirstclick.net. We're here for you. Let's get into the episode.

Intro
You're listening to the digital marketing therapy podcast. I'm your host, Sami Bedell-Mulhern. Each month we dive deep into a digital marketing or fundraising strategy that you can implement in your organization. Each week, you'll hear from guest experts, nonprofits, and myself on best practices, tips and resources to help you raise more money online and reach your organizational goals.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Hey, friends, please join me in welcoming Rob Tracz to the podcast. Rob, thank you for being here today. Oh,

Rob Tracz
thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
when we're talking burnout, which is, I think, a hot topic all the time, stress, and you know, life as our professional our professional lives, and how we can kind of make sure we're still doing all of the best work that we can. And I feel like right now, things are even more stressful with so much uncertainty happening day after day after day. So why before we kind of jump into some strategies? Why? Why is this stress management burnout, kind of organizational stuff? Why? Why do you love talking about this and coaching people? Yeah,

Rob Tracz
I love, I love talking about it, stages and workshops and on different one on one, coachings and things. Because I'm, I'm one of the many people who had gone through a severe stage of burnout in today's age, it's very easy to. Kind of just take on more more work, more stressors, more responsibility, and it's it's easy to just wear it as a badge, or at least disguise it as honor, and kind of neglect some of the warning signs that pop up that usually should be an indicator to maybe tone things down a little bit. My background is actually in strength and conditioning, sports, sports performance, that kind of thing was where I originated, and I got the taste of entrepreneurship in the private sector, which gave me a little bit of freedom to kind of work with my schedule. And when I was younger, I was like, Oh, this is great. All I have to do is just book more sessions with clients, and then I can just make more money. And essentially I had nobody to tell me not to. So after a short while, I quickly scaled my book of business up to a point where I was working 12 to 15 hours a day, seven days a week. And that went on for about three years. And I call that robot mode. And robot mode is not necessarily a negative thing, because you get a lot done, you're very efficient. You see a lot of success, or shadow success, what I like to call and like I was saying before, you just wear it as a badge. And so many people would tell me, like, ask me to come to events, weddings, birthday parties, things like that, and even the holidays, I would always pack my schedule and continue to work. And as I was stuck in that robot mode, the downside is you lose that human mode, which is that consciousness, that awareness and understanding of what's going on around you. And in that time, relationships deteriorated, my health started falling apart, and I became a slave to the grind, and so much so that my dad, my father, had developed stage four pancreatic cancer, and by the time we found out, instead of spending the time with him, I chose to continue with my schedule at work and and I'll never get those, those times, those times back and and after he had passed, I continued to bury myself, because then it became a distraction, and until I got to a point where I was denied, that's that distraction, and my schedule was empty on a holiday weekend that really allowed for some time for reflection, which is really the important thing, because that's when I became aware of the sad reality of what my life had become, and that's when I know I needed to change things around. So I've reflected and identified what's worked for me in the past to become very successful at what I was doing, and that eventually led into what I call now is prime performance coaching and help other individuals avoid burnout and help identify those warning signs before they pop up. And because I don't want other people to go through what I went through. It's it's uncomfortable, and you feel you just it doesn't feel right. And anybody who's experienced burnout will know that it's a tough period to be be in. Well, I

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
think there's like, words that are like, hustle and grind and like, busy. Like, I feel like, like, you said we wear this badge of honor to say, Well, I'm just so busy. I like, look at my calendar. It's so busy. And I find myself falling into that trap sometimes too. And I am in a phase right now where I'm really like, I need to take a look at my calendar two weeks from now and just start like, blocking things off, because this is getting a little bit crazy. And I think there are seasons of, you know, when you are a little bit more loaded, and there are seasons where you aren't, and instead of loading yourself up, you you need to just enjoy that kind of space and work on some some other things, right? So I'm curious for you, like, what does that look like when you're seeing a slowdown? Like, how do you continue to, kind of say, Yeah, this is a normal progression in the cycle of my business or in the work that I do. I'm going to welcome this, versus all of a sudden going things are slowing down. I need to, like, hustle and grind, because I might lose everything that I built.

Rob Tracz
Yeah, I think, I think really being able to reflect or pay attention or prepare a little bit like knowing your boundaries, your deadlines and different seasons, that was a huge epiphany moment for me, when I realized I don't need to just grind and hustle. 24/7, as hard as I can, 100 miles an hour, like I can set boundaries saying, like, Hey, okay, this is going to be a sprint season. Like I'm going to allow myself to take on more clients, if, if I'm trying to make it a push for income, or if I'm trying to hit certain targets. But once that deadline comes, I need to stay true to it, and then go into a down period or an off season, and I have to know that in advance. So then I can, I can kind of plan for that accordingly.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Yeah, I love that. Okay, so in the nonprofit space, what we know is that development directors, fundraisers. Are leaving the industry at a pretty rampant pace, and not just leaving their existing job, but literally leaving the industry as a whole. And so it's really important that we are taking care of our teams. It's really important that we're taking care of ourselves. So I kind of want to jump into like, talking through two different sets of strategies. So one in, how can we as leaders, support our organization? And how can we support ourselves if we're in general, even if we're getting support from our organization, we still need to make sure we're taking care of ourselves, because at the end of the day, we're all individuals, right? So, you know, why is the topic of burnout something that our you know, as an organization we should take seriously and consider and kind of what things might we want to think about implementing for our teams to kind of ensure that we're helping people before they reach that that tipping point.

Rob Tracz
Yeah, well, so if, if we're not taking burnout seriously, then people are going to burn out and then leave and change industries and careers and things like that, and then somebody, somebody is going to need to fill those shoes. So if we're constantly trying to fill the shoes with new individuals, it's very difficult for us to kind of gain traction and make steps going forward. And so I think taking a step back. And we all, we all have organizational values, and we know our our goals and where we're trying to get to. So why not taking a step further into it and looking at everybody individually, or at least as like a team, like having those different seasons in in the schedule, so then we can kind of allocate certain times and paying attention and taking different strategies on like different things like nutrition or stress management, or different organizational practices, where we can kind of work them together so that we can kind of spearhead it and cut it off in advance, before it becomes to a position where it's too late and we are losing individuals

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
when we think about implementing some of those things, if they cost money, it's like really paying attention to, what does it cost you to re onboard, to onboard, hire and bring on a new person, plus lack of revenue, right in conjunction with, kind of, what does it cost us to proactively create some of these things in our environment to make things better, easier, whatever?

Rob Tracz
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's looking at those costs there, because having to go through that whole onboarding stage and and ramping up the new individual to come in, like that's like you said, that's costing a lot of time, energy and resources, whereas if you were to implement some lower cost practices or strategies, you can continue to hang on to the same people.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
So how important is communication and collaboration inside of any business or organization to also helping your employees or your team kind of prevent burnout?

Rob Tracz
Well, I mean, if communicate well, communication is miscommunication is the baseline whenever there is any kind of conflict, conversation or anything going on, so always making sure that you as an individual are showing up and communicating as efficiently and as clearly as possible. That'll help minimize miscommunication, but then also creating spaces where everybody can feel safe and trusted, and being able to communicate their their style and their way allows for that better understanding of where everybody's kind of at. So if you if we're lacking the ability to communicate through different things are going to fall apart. So making sure that one being able to connect with all everybody, and having those avenues and areas open for communication. And then two, practicing and getting better constantly, because communication, everybody takes it for granted, because we all talk in every single day. So everybody thinks we're great at it, but the truth is, we're all actually really terrible at it. So there are a lot of different ways and fun ways to kind of bring up the communication which then leads to collaboration, which then helps to reduce things like burnout and over stress and things like that. Yeah,

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
well, it comes top down, right, like, if the leadership is modeling a certain communication style, openness, willing, like creating that safe space for people like that is probably half the battle to teaching the team that it's okay to come in with what you need. It's okay to fail, it's okay to come with ideas that might be great or that we might not accept, but everything like the leadership needs to kind of lead by example and model that, right?

Rob Tracz
Oh, yeah, 100% and that's that's really what's going to help a lot, is having those leaders, like you said, lead the way, or lead by example.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Yeah, well, and it would be nice in a perfect world if we all had, like, very self aware leaders that were there for us. But that's just simply not the case. Unfortunately. Definitely in all organizations. So how you know, as individuals, if we're processing like, I love that you shared your personal story. I think that's so great. Some of us are in small shops, some of us are in bigger teams. Like, what should we start with first, when we're feeling a little bit overwhelmed or stressed out and like, starting to notice like this. Just doesn't feel quite right. I can't maintain this like what, I guess maybe, what were some cues that you didn't listen to, that you now thinking back on your journey, like, were telltale signs that, like you were approaching burnout?

Rob Tracz
Well, the first things that I kind of noticed was kind of getting into the like that mundane routine where I wasn't wasn't necessarily challenged, challenging myself. So usually that's a good sign for many individuals where burnout is kind of arising if it's if it's not challenging enough, or if it's too challenging. So when you're kind of on both sides of that spectrum, that could be an easy indicator of burnout beginning to kind of creep in. And then, because you want to have that appropriate amount of challenge, a little bit of stressor that's making us better and kind of keeping us sharp. And then from there, is also, like intentional consumption, just kind of falling victim to different types of foods. Not being proactive. Being more reactive was also a good sign for myself in the beginning, in terms of food and my dietary nutrition, but then also my digital nutrition too. So when I was leaving work or when I was not in the gym or not around like the work environment, what was I consuming that was like content or music or the news. A lot of these things were just kind of helping me turn my brain off into a way where I'm just like Doom scrolling or just watching binging Netflix to kind of escape things instead of consuming things that were educating, inspiring or motivating and pushing me forward, because losing that awareness of where what I'm bringing into my body. So those are, like the first two steps for myself. Really, that really stuck out.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Well, I will have you call it digital nutrition. I've never heard that before. That's a great term. Might need to start using that. But I think it's like little, teeny, tiny tweaks. It's almost like, when you start to realize something's off, it's much easier to, like, try something and tweak it a little bit before, like, you get all the way to the point where now you're digging yourself out of a big hole. So, like, you, you know, when you shared your story, it was, I'm sure, like, you definitely oversimplify your experience as far as, like, how you kind of reflected and got through that. I'm sure it was a longer process. Longer process. But like, how did you give yourself kind of the grace to do that, because you'd been grinding for so long, and like, doing all this, you went through a trauma with your dad's passing. Like, what, like, was it? Were there people around you that kind of helped you work through that? Like, did you journal? Like, what did that process look like, as far as, like, really understanding, okay, this isn't working for me right now, but I still need to make money. I still need to run this business. I still need to, like, life, still lifes, like, how did you kind of balance both of those things while you were working through, okay, what is this next version gonna look like?

Rob Tracz
Yeah, and yeah, you're so so right with that. It wasn't just like a flip of the switch, it's it was a process that took a long time, and I just started with one little thing, just kind of looking at my my whole picture of situation. And I was looking at different things, of really myself as an individual. What are me, my personal values? So what do I hold most true to myself and and once I kind of reflected on that and figured things out that like one of my motivators or drives is, is adversity. So I do like a little bit of a challenge, and I do like to like work, I say progress towards mastery. So that was for me, identifying that I wasn't challenging myself at all, because it kind of became so circled, kind of up and down, same thing every day. So for me, it was identifying, okay, I need to introduce a little bit more difficulty, or a little more challenge. And it's, it's, there's a lot of easy ways that you can bring discomfort into your life that kind of energizes, motivates, like a lot of people nowadays, are really excited about cold showers or cold plunges or changing up your diet to kind of shock different things. But for me, it was it was just that it was introducing small little challenges, things that I could work on for a short period of time that brought that variety or or change into my life. So then I could use that to kind of get the momentum rolling. And then I eventually evolved into another practice, or into another thing and and then it just kind of snowballed into this larger change, which you see today. I love

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
that. So you basically gave yourself small, quick wins that you could like see six. Us without it being like, this huge, like, mountain of I'm gonna, like, do this big thing. It's like, Well, I'm just gonna do this small thing, and then I'm gonna be excited about that small thing and then do the next small thing. I think that's so such a great way to kind of approach that, because I think we tend to just either as entrepreneurs, I mean, I do the same thing. It's like, you hit a goal, and then you're like, okay, but then I need to do this, and then I need to, like, you don't take the time to actually say, like, Hey, I did this thing, and there's never an end goal. And then you're never, like, winning, and you're never celebrating anything, and you're never, like, excited about anything. And so I think I love that that is a practical tip. So you know, as you're kind of working through this, if we are an individual in an organization, I know, you know, you mentioned you kind of run your own business, but as you're coaching and talking with people, if we are in a place where we're feeling like, you know, we're struggling and we're reaching burnout and we need support from our team, like, Do you have any tips for how We can kind of approach and communicate with our it might be your executive director, it might be your board, or whatever, to kind of say, like, hey, I need some support here. And like, you know, do we need to be specific? Like, what types of ways can we kind of talk about that or share that with our with our staff? Because I think sometimes we feel like, if we say that we're complaining or we're, you know, bitching and moaning and well, you know, we're all feeling that way, like, how do we kind of start to have that conversation?

Rob Tracz
Yeah, I think the best way that I try to coach individuals and smaller organizations is to really have everybody as a as an organization. We have kind of a flow chart and org chart, but then on the personal level, we should also have something I call the team triangle. So at the very top of the triangle is your coach or your mentor, or somebody you can go to to kind of seek advice or a little bit of guidance, somebody you can kind of learn from, whether that's in the organization or outside the organization, somebody that you can trust and you can go to. And then also you want to identify two to three captains. So you've got the coach at the top. You've got your captains who you can kind of lean on to share about different things that are going through, who are typically around the same level. So whether they're in the organization or outside the organization, they go through the similar types of things as you so you can lean on then you also want to identify, like, three to four, maybe five crowd members at the at the base of the triangle, and these are the individuals who are going to motivate you and support you and push you through. So if, when you have this kind of structure in place, you can go to the coach to kind of share some of the things that you're you're experiencing, and you can kind of practice and get the information from their their outside perspective on the how to kind of handle that. Then you can go to your captains, and you can kind of practice this might feel uncomfortable, kind of role playing, but you can share like, Hey, I was thinking about doing this or talking to so and so about this. Have you gone through a situation? Or what would you do in a situation like this? And then you also, you want to touch base with your crowd, those people who are cheering you on, so that you can tell them that you are going to do it and you're planning to do this. And then they can hold you accountable and motivate you. And then rain or shine, however the situation or conflict or environment, whatever, however it ends up, the crowd is still there cheering you want to support you and keep you in a positive mindset. I love

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
that. So it's like a combination of, how do you pull an internal like, if, okay, so it sounds like you would come into an organization, and each person would kind of build their own team, right? And it wouldn't be a combination of internal and external people, but you're still building that environment and kind of value system around like, we're all here to support each other. We're all doing a similar thing. We all now have the tools and resources to kind of make this happen, and something that you can kind of continue to talk about in team meetings, like, How's everybody doing? What are you learning? Doing? What are you learning within your your team triangle? I think that's, yeah, great. So I want to, kind of the last thing that I wanted to kind of ask you about was, like, at the end of the day, sometimes we can't fix where we're at, and the struggle is just the struggle. And so like, at what point when you were going through what you were going through? And as you kind of talk with other people that are going through a burnout phase, like, when do we push through and say, okay, yep, this is really what I want. And I'm going to continue to, like, try to figure out how to make this work, versus it's time to just let this go and do something different and move on. Like, how do you kind of determine where you just need adjustments, and where you really just not a good thing for you. And time to go.

Rob Tracz
Yeah, it's, it's, it's really difficult to kind of give a blanket statement on where everybody should identify, but I guess in that is also it becomes very individualized. So each person. Really needs to kind of know themselves, know their history, know where they're trying to get to understanding their values, their personal values. They need to know that the lifestyle, the everything that they're trying to kind of build, and how they fit into that world. They also need to know things like their strengths. They need to know their goals. They need to know their weaknesses like a SWOT analysis. Because once you have better understanding of all those things, that helps, kind of put the bookends on that kind of, what can I handle? How much can I push a little bit further? Because then when you know the different deadlines, and you know the different seasons that you're working in. And you know yourself, you can kind of look in and check in with and then going to your captains and your crowd saying, Hey, I'm thinking kind of this. And then they can remind you, okay, it's only for a little bit longer with the sprint season. I think you can kind of push through with that. Or, no, I really don't think so it's so it's really difficult to say, because there's so many variables at play, but the key here is just knowing yourself and paying attention to what works for you, and I think that's going to help kind of shine some light on some of those questions, especially in those dark, dark times when burnout is real and you're not quite sure how close you are to that finish line, but having as much information as you can can sometimes help you push a little bit further through to cross that finish line.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
I love that, because having that support system to lean on and your crowd kind of, to me, feels like accountability partners, like they're the ones that are going to hold you accountable to what you said you wanted and what you said you were going to do, and also be a safe place to if they're giving you positive or negative feedback, they're trustworthy that you know that they're not just kind of blowing smoke and trying to tell you what you want to hear. Right? So I love that, and I it kind of just makes me think about as an entrepreneur, I don't know how you felt or feel now, like i We're a small team, and I tend to sit here in my office and, like, come up with ideas, and I'm like, That's brilliant, and then nobody cares, because I was, it was just all in my head. It wasn't something that I actually like, did the market rate, whatever right, like, or vice versa, or I'll do the opposite and say, like, No, I can't. I can't possibly do that. So even just to have that group of people to be sounding boards for you, I'm a verbal person. I need to talk things out before I can kind of really understand. So the power in that group, I think, in being able to say, here's what I'm thinking and for them to either valid and say, yep, or for them to be like, Okay, that's totally in your head, like you're kicking butt. Like, keep pushing through. I love that as an example. And you know, if we're sitting here being like, Okay, I love this idea. Like, how do you start to go find those people? Like, are there certain types of people I know you mentioned, and I'm sorry I'm gonna get these titles wrong, so you'll have to correct me. But at the middle level, like you said, there are people that are at the same level as you so, like, if I'm a development director, would that be like, maybe reaching out to other development directors at other organizations, and then my crowd would could be a combination of, you know, a family member, I trust, another colleague. Like, can you get, maybe get a little bit more specific on how we might find who those people are. Yeah,

Rob Tracz
yeah, it's, it's tough to find, it's tough to find good people. So you, you don't want to just reach out say, hey, we have the same we have the same job. Would you like to kind of share a lot of intimate questions and struggle going through so like you, but you do have to be open to pushing putting yourself out there and and if your circle that you're working with right now, you might not have people that you directly align with, you do have to go out and find them. So networking events typically don't tend to be the greatest, but like industry or other like conferences and in places where there are professional settings and people are getting together, it's great place to find others, but then you don't know who's a right fit for you until you start having those conversations. So you got to be able to relate to other individuals. You got to be open to connecting and looking to be able to provide a little bit more value, and finding ways that you can relate with other individuals. That's how you start to build the relationships, the friendships and the partnerships and collaboration. So keeping the eye open and constantly looking to expand your network and touching base and and making sure that you check in with individuals too. Because if you do go out and find somebody who's pretty cool. Don't forget about them. Check in on them, and because you might be in somebody else's triangle as well. So and without them directly asking you or inviting you in. So you want to make sure that you're constantly showing up to provide value and being that team player, even if they're not directly in your. Organization or in your circle of influence.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
I love that. I know, like my business has been built on that exact thing. I didn't know that's what it was, but I would not be where I am if I didn't have those cheerleaders and people that I could text and be like, Okay, today's a day. Can I? Can we just chat? Because I needed to, like, understand, like, what just happened, right? So I love that. Well, Rob, I think such great insights and ways to kind of tackle burnout in ways that I haven't heard before, but I love they're so practical and so easy, not easy to do, but like, easy to understand and start to put into place. So thank you so much for sharing your story and your experience and how that's kind of led you to where you are, because I think at the end of the day, if you're not doing something you're passionate about, then burnout is going to come all the faster. So thank you for that. But if people want to connect with you, learn more about you learn about the work that you do. How can they do that?

Rob Tracz
Yeah, the easiest place is probably on social media. I hang out the most on Instagram and LinkedIn, probably on social media. I hang out the most on E by searching my name, Rob. Yep, I

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
love that. And we'll have everything linked up in the show notes at the first click.net/ 303, so Rob, thank you so much for being here today.

Rob Tracz
Hey. Thank you so much. This was really fun. Appreciate it.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Okay, so are you feeling ready to kind of tackle the day, tackle the projects, keep moving and getting things going in your organization? I really, truly hope so. Again, you can get the show notes for this episode at thefirstclick.net/303, but I just love Rob's insights and wisdom. I would love it if you would head on over to YouTube at Digital Marketing therapy and leave a comment below, what was your biggest takeaway? What was the thing that you learned the most? What are you most excited to kind of implement, or maybe what surprised you in this episode? Make sure you subscribe wherever you listen so you don't miss a single episode. We do have bonus episodes that pop in every once in a while, and also just share this podcast with anybody that you know might need some help with what they're going through right now and kind of their motivation and excitement in their organization. I really appreciate you taking the time to listen. Thank you so much for being here, and I will see you in the next one.