Ep 261 | Power of Guest Podcasting with Dustin Riechmann

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When you're a guest on someone else's podcast you are put in front of an audience that already trusts you. They are listening to what you have to say because they already enjoy the podcast you're guesting on. It is an opportunity for you to share your expertise and reach new audiences. However, there are a few things you can do to make it even more successful.

What you'll learn:

  • → Dustin's 5 step framework for podcast guesting
  • → How to identify target podcast opportunities
  • → Tips for crafting an effective pitch
  • → Preparing for your podcast interview
  • → Creating a clear call to action

Want to skip ahead? Here are key takeaways:

[16:03] Dustin outlines his 5P framework: purpose, plan, pitch, perform, profit.
[22:38] Understand your purpose and goals before identifying podcasts.
[31:55] Customize your pitch based on the podcast's audience.
[37:02] Provide one clear call to action at the end for listeners.

Resources

Dustin Riechmann's free podcast guesting playbook and resources

Dustin Riechmann

Dustin Riechmann

Founder, 7-Figure Leap Coaching

Dustin Riechmann is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of 7-Figure Leap Coaching. He specializes in helping mission-driven experts build 7-figure brands by telling their story.

Learn more at https://7figureleap.com

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Full Transcript

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
I love podcasting. It's my favorite form of long form content. And you know, I'm 261 episodes into digital marketing therapy, and I've been doing it for years. But one of the things that I'm working on doing more of is guesting on other people's podcasts and truly collaborating with them, getting in front of their audience sharing their my information and wisdom and knowledge and stories with their audience to provide value. So, I have guests on my podcast almost every single week, I'm starting to guest more on other people's podcasts and I thought maybe you might want to do it, too. So today I have a very special guest who, that's what he does, he helps people be pitch and get in front of podcast find the right podcast and the guests on their show. So even if you're not ready to start your own podcast totally fine. guesting is a great way to jump in, learn more and be a part of somebody else's community.

Dustin Riechmann is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of Seven Figure Leap Coaching. He specializes in helping mission driven experts build seven figure brands by telling their story. He's here to share his five step framework for guesting on podcast with you so that you can start to work through getting out there having conversations, meeting more people and more importantly, getting more eyeballs and visibility on the incredible impact that you're doing at your organization. So I hope that you'll give this episode a listen.

But before we get into it, it is brought to you by our June freebie. We have a quiz keyed up for you to help you really understand if you're ready to start collaborating. Is it time to start jumping into collaborations head on and really using that to grow your reach your impact your connections, your network? Or do you need to maybe get some things in line and get ready to go before you start to jump in and reaching out for collaborations in general, not just in podcasting. So take the quiz. It's really easy, and you'll get your results that will give you some tips and resources for things that you can do moving forward. You can find it in all of our other freebies. At thefirstclick.net/resources. I hope you'll take this quiz, and really kind of figure out how you can thoughtfully jump into collaborations, get creative with them and just figure out your time capacity and how it all aligns with your goals. So again, you can find that at thefirstclick.net/resources Let's get into the episode.

Intro
You're listening to the digital marketing therapy podcast. I'm your host, Sami Bedell-Mulhern. Each month we dive deep into a digital marketing or fundraising strategy that you can implement in your organization. Each week, you'll hear from guest experts, nonprofits, and myself on best practices, tips and resources to help you raise more money online and reach your organizational goals.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Hey, friends, please join me in welcoming Dustin Riechmann to the podcast. Dustin, thanks for being here today.

Dustin Riechmann
Hi Sami, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah,

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
and we're talking about podcasting today, which obviously, you know, I'm a fan of because we've 200 and this is episode 261 of the digital marketing therapy podcast. But before we kind of jump into partnerships and how podcasting can help your organization, kind of why do you love podcasting as a tool?

Dustin Riechmann
Yeah, so I focus specifically on podcast guesting, so kind of be on this side of the mic, although and I did that pretty much exclusively for three years and built two brands with it and have helped a bunch of other people with it. And now though, I've also hosts, I think I can actually talk about both sides of the mic. But regardless of which side you're on, I think there's lots and lots and lots of special and unique things about the podcasting for format. And like just this, this way of connecting that, for one is a really good relationship builder. And obviously, it's like the best tool for building relationships at scale. I think it's also really valuable in the sense that it's long form and educational content. And so I love that aspect of it. I also love that it's easy to be honest, like to show up and talk about the things that you love to talk about and showcase your case studies or your organization. I mean, that's fun. And it's easy, right compared to having to travel and be on a physical stage or produce a really high end YouTube educational piece of content. So I think there's a lot of like, practical reasons, it's really good. And then I'd say my favorite reason for podcasting and why I think it's going to continue to grow and and not shrink as a medium is just the human human connection. Like even though we're on Zoom, or a different platform or on a virtual video, Sammy and I are really able to connect and and I'm really able to connect with your audience. And I think that's unique and I think in an age of emerging AI and all the things that the implications that come with that. I think having real people talking about real stories having real connection is really, really important. And so I think podcasting is actually going to grow in importance over time.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Yeah. And you see that too, because like a lot of platforms are, I mean, like YouTube, for example, is putting a lot of effort behind podcasting, and having that as part of their platform. Spotify has done that also. I mean, like, you see more and more of these big companies, you know, catering to podcasting as well not shrinking away from it.

Dustin Riechmann
Yeah, absolutely. I think, yeah, there was like, you know, lots of weird things happened during the COVID years, but there was a big spike in quote, unquote, podcasting, because a lot of people were stuck at home was like, Oh, I'm gonna make a podcast. And then of course, there was a lot of those people only recorded one episode. And then there was a decline. And so in the headlines, a lot of people saw like podcasting is dying. You know, there's there's always those headlines, but I think if you look, if you take out that that noise from the signal, it's actually definitely growing. And if anything, yeah, there's more and more kind of corporate investment. And it's being taken more seriously, by large companies. But also, there's still tons of room for creators and nonprofits and people who have a message and a mission behind what they're doing. I just think this is a just a wonderful format, an opportunity to get that message out in a real way. Yeah,

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
I love that. Well, and you know, this month is all about collaboration. And so that's why I was really excited to have you on because we are talking about guesting, which makes it even easier. So if you're like, I want to get into the world of podcasting, but I'm not ready to start my own. Because there are so many out there and a wide variety of guests podcasting, like being a guest on other people's podcasts is a great easy lift and great visibility. So kind of Could you talk a little bit more about kind of how you've used guesting to kind of grow the businesses you've done and and kind of how you work with people on helping them do the same to get more visibility.

Dustin Riechmann
Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of a weird and fun little niche that I've carved out and in the online marketing space. But the way I got into it is completely happenstance. So basically, I was a partner and an E commerce company called Fire Creek snacks. And for several years, we were growing that with traditional online marketing, and actually kind of big into like wholesale and brick and mortar. So we were doing trade shows and doing a lot of traveling and a lot of sampling because the whole company was like a better for you meet stick basically right like a healthy Slim Jim was probably the easier way for most people to understand what what we were producing. And that was going great. And I was literally driving from St. Louis to Chicago for a trade show in March 2020. And when I got almost got to Chicago, I got a phone call that said, hey, trade shows canceled. Oh, man, what's going on? And so then I come home. And of course, everything's canceled. And so we had to figure out a different way to market that brand. And I always enjoyed listening to podcasts. I've never hosted one or one on one. But I'm like, You know what? What the heck, I'll try it. So I reached out to my very first podcast host and said, Hey, I've got this story about this business partnership and how we've taken this this like local brand, and we've brought it online. And I think it's pretty compelling. I think it's even more compelling now, because of COVID. There's a lot of local businesses who need to start selling online. So it was pretty timely. I was able to tie the story to that event, I got to a pretty large podcast called the side hustle show with Nick Loper. And that was the very first show in summer 2020. So that's how I got into this world. I realized I loved it, I enjoyed it. We made some sales as like, Hey, this is pretty cool. And so I just started doing that on repeat and started looking for other opportunities to tell the fire Creek story. And so I did that for six months. Just focus entirely on that brand. And then, you know, funny thing happens when you start doing stuff in public, is people start noticing and I started getting inbound requests like hey, can you coach me? Can you help me with this? I think podcasting could help my business. And so I just started doing one off coaching. And that's evolved to the point now several years later, where fire Creek snacks became a seven figure brand. And then, like this whole coaching business came out, it came out of it about 18 months ago and became an official thing and about six months ago actually rebranded in the seven figure leap. And so that's really our focus now as we work primarily with mission driven entrepreneurs, but other industry leaders and nonprofit leaders certainly as well. And we help them use podcasts guesting as a marketing channel to grow their their business or their nonprofit. And so yeah, I'm happy to talk about like the framework or you know, like how we work with people through this process, really effective. But like that's my own story of these two brands were completely built on guessing side of the mic, and only about three or four months ago didn't actually start my own podcast, and I highly recommend for people to take that path like you don't need to take three years but keep mine I was doing two different brands right had a protracted journey. But you know, I think doing guesting for a while to really dial in your messaging, get your stories, figure out who you want to talk to you what you want to talk about, then take on the commitment. As Sammy knows, it's a big commitment to own a show and produce a show. And it's a lot harder than simply showing up and being a guest and talking about the things you love to talk about. In front of an audience that's already been grown. Right. So anyway, that's, that's my own story. I'm podcast guessing. And I hope other people hear that I think the right way to enter the podcasting world is through the guesting side of the mic, initially, and you know, add hosting as appropriate. I love

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
to that you said that you were approaching other podcasts to tell the story of how you created your product and your brand. Not, it wasn't a pitch to hey, I need to sell a product. I think that my personal opinion, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I think that that was probably what helped you with that success was that I'm here just to share a story and inspire people. That connection that you make through the podcast with the other with the audience is what's gonna get them to be like, oh, I want to look into that brand. And I want to see what that's all about. I think that's kind of cool. As opposed to like a hard pitch on. Like, you don't want to go on somebody's podcast and be like, hey, donate to our organization, you win them over with the story and encourage them to engage more, right?

Dustin Riechmann
Absolutely, yeah, I don't ever Pitch Anything directly other than maybe a free gift or, you know, some sort of like, if you liked this topic, and you want to go deeper, here's like a free next step. But yeah, never Pitch Anything directly. Everything's very story based. And I would say it's gonna be a combination of like, just pure storytelling, like, Hey, here's my story, or here's a client story, or here's a belief I have and why I have it. And you know, those sort of things. I think that with a combination of education is like the most important art is the most powerful combo. So like a personal story, really leading with empathy, and like letting people know, like being vulnerable and transparent and telling something about yourself that connects to with people, and then backing that up with like authority, meaning and I and I know stuff, right? Like, here's how I got into this, this is why it's important to me. But then also here's like, something I can teach you. So that's where you might showcase your framework or the the work that your organization does in the community and educate people about not only why but how that works. And then you kind of get that powerful one two combo, empathy and authority. I come from story brand world if people are familiar with building a story brand by Donald Miller. And that's like when you talk about being a guide in the story and like really positioning yourself appropriately. It's empathy than authority. And I think the same thing is true when you're doing any kind of content, but especially podcast interviews, agreed.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Well, and speaking of framework, if you're listening, and you're like, Okay, I want to start guesting. How do we even start to look for podcasts we might want to be on?

Dustin Riechmann
Yeah, so I'll quickly hit like, we have a five step framework we take people through, and people typically start asking questions and steps two or three, and which is exactly what you just did. And I think it's very natural. But there's a step before that. So my frameworks, just like five P's, super simple, I'll say them, and I'll go back through them real quick. It's plant purpose, plan, pitch, perform profit, or maybe nonprofit organizations. But it's still the first step is purpose. And that's actually getting, it's actually getting really clear on why like, Why do I want to be on a podcast? So what are my goals? You know, what are the things I'm trying to drive with this? Who am I trying to speak to? And what transformation do I provide with my work with my organization? Right? And so that's kind of a deep question, but it's really important because most people, don't they skip the purpose part and they go straight to step two, we call a plan or it's kind of like the research like, okay, which shows do I want to be on? Well, you got to answer that question, but it's really hard to answer it strategically. If you haven't done step one, which is understand more, more deeply, why you're trying to, why you're wanting to do in the first place and what results you're trying to drive. But step two is plan. Step three is pitch. And I'm sure we're gonna talk about this a little more today, too. Once you find the podcast, which I'm going to go back and answer your questions, Sami on how you find them. But once you do find them, well, you have to actually get on them. Right, you have to compel the host to say, hey, look, I have stories to tell. And I have valued to provide and like, here's why I would be a great guest. So that's step three was just pitch.

Step four is perform. So congratulations. They said, Yes. You've got a calendar link to come record an interview, like what are you going to talk about, you know, like, What stories do you want to tell? What's your call to action at the end of the interview, to make sure it's driving the results that you set up in step one, which was your purpose for doing this? And finally, Step five is profit. So in most of my clients world, they're entrepreneurs, they're building businesses. And the step one purpose is often You know, leads sales revenue. Now, you know, nonprofit, you know, it has to be the same thing, fundraising awareness, investment and board membership, those sort of things, they have that. So they have different purposes, but you basically the same process. So the step five is all about leveraging each opportunity to really double down and drive home your goals, right? So in the entrepreneurship world, that's like, Okay, now we've got all these podcasts going, like how do we build a marketing flywheel effect from it and really drive exponential growth for our business. So when we work with people in a 90 day program, the first 30 days is the first four of those B's. So that's like really getting the system set up. And we actually spend two thirds of our time on the fifth step. But just like, it's not just about getting on the right shows, and telling the right stories that's really important and foundational, but then you need to do things after that to really drive the results in the biggest way. So that's the framework five Ps, would you like me to kind of step back into step two now and talk about how to find the right shows? Yeah,

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
cuz I Yeah. And I want to touch on kind of the purpose piece, you know, because I think a lot of times, we don't kind of think outside the box, like, there's podcasts on absolutely everything. So I think, even as, as you kind of jump into your research, I would just challenge people to think through, like, if you're an if you're working to solve food scarcity, you know, you might start very niche in like, where you actually like the part of the problem that you solve, but also like, really, I think understanding who your target audience is based off of that, like, you might then instead, like, you might talk to some podcasts that are like, parenting podcast, because you're trying, you know, or healthy eating or like, there might be some things that aren't directly related necessarily to food scarcity, but their audience is the people that you want to target to help you solve, like to continue to increase impact. I know, I'm not saying this very eloquently. But I just think I love that you said you started with purpose, because I think that can really help you as you go into the research phase, to be a little bit more creative with the types of podcasts that you look for, to guest on. Yeah,

Dustin Riechmann
so when we unpack purpose with people, one of the first things we do is like help them with through prompts. We help them create like a three year vision or vivid vision, some people call it right, like, what do I ultimately want for if it's your business or your nonprofit, like the thing, you're focused on growing through podcasts guessing, like, where I ultimately want this to go? And you know, it's really hard to think ultimate in terms of anything past three years, but three years, you can be pretty, very concrete and like, what's my life look like? How does my business or nonprofit serve that? And so it just sets like a focal direction like a focal point, or alignment, then you come back down into that like, okay, what can I do this year? Through podcasts guesting to drive those results, and then like, what can I do in the next 90 days? This is ECG much more clear in the moment. So that's kind of one part of it is what do you want? And then the other part is, more importantly, what do your clients want, right? So we do like a before and after transformation exercise where you really get very discreet and get very, really emotional words and things about how your clients feel before they meet you, and how your clients feel after they get to fully work with you and experience your transformation. And so that's important, because that gives you a lot more clarity on like, okay, those people that I want to serve, now that I know them, I've named them I understand them, then it's way easier to find out where they are. Because it's kind of hard to have a target if you know, like, have a bullseye if you don't have a target, so yeah, yeah.

So once we do that, though, well, we the transition we would make into step two, really, it's actually just the example you're just given Sami, it's. So what most people do, which is in interact, and then and really messes up the results is they'll say, like, Oh, I was using examples. I, my very first online business was in the marriage niche. So let's say you're a marriage coach. So I help couples with communication, and you're a marriage coach. So you're like, hey, I want to grow my business. So you would think, Hey, I'm gonna go get on shows. And I'm gonna like be interviewed about marriage coaching. Well, the problem is the people hosting shows about marriage coaching are usually a marriage coaches. And so it's, it's a direct competition, right? So you see, you're looking for areas to collaborate, not compete. And so what I would do in that case, is look for, like, it's kind of a Venn diagram, right? There's what you do, and there's what the host does, and you want overlap, but not like complete overlap, right? And they also don't want to not have those circles, not touch because then you know, you're not going to talk about healthy eating on a marketing podcast, right? So you got to have some overlap, but not too much. And so a really easy way to find those those alignment areas is really two questions that people can think about. So what causes your problem? problem that you solve. So what what are like the root causes of the thing that you help people with? And what are the symptoms? Or what are the results when people have it? So in the marriage example, you know, my sweet mother thing I like to do is actually work with married couples on their communication. But it does not make sense for me to go beyond marriage shows. So what would I be on? Well, what causes people to have problems in their marriage? And in their communication? Well, there's lots of triggers for that right? One would be being a first time parent. So anyone who's been married a while and you have your first kid, you realize it changes the dynamic of your household, they can create a lot of marriage problems. So maybe I become a marriage coach, but I go get featured on parenting podcast, or first time parenting podcast, right, and I'm coming in as a expert on the communication within a marriage, that's not going to compete with the, with the host, who's probably more of a parenting oriented coach, or doctor or whatever, right? That's one example of what causes marriage problems.

The other would be like, what are some symptoms that arise when people are having marriage problems, and they're having communication problems? Well, one big one that comes to mind for me, is personal finance problems, right? Like people have problems managing their money, and they don't talk to each other. And so, so maybe you're the marriage coach, and you go get on personal finance podcast. And you talk about the importance of having a common vision and goal setting. So you're not competing with like the CPA, who's making their financial advisor who's maybe hosting these shows, you're actually coming in as an adjacent expert, to serve a portion of their audience with your own story and your own teaching. And so for those of us who are old enough to remember, Oprah, I kind of call this the Oprah effect, right? Like, Oprah had a massive audience. So this is like a very mega example of this. But if you imagine Oprah had this audience, and you know, they came, they loved Oprah for certain Oprah things. But what did Oprah do? She actually brought in tons of guest experts, right. And she actually launched the careers of people like Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz Suze Orman, Rachael Ray, like all these people that we now know, as household names actually got started by coming on Oprah's platform. But they weren't competing with Oprah. They weren't trying to be Oprah, they were coming to talk about their little niche topic that some of her audience would find really interesting. She had enough of an effect that they actually created entire brands from that. But like, if you think of mini Oprah's, that you can be like, oh, like there's a portion of their audience that would love the thing I love to talk about. Those are the people you want to reach out to because you're adding to their show, not trying to compete with it. So that's kind of a long answer. But I hope that gives you good examples to work with in their own head.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
No, I think it's great. And I think the other thing about it, is that and we'll talk about pitching next, because I think that this for me is where people go south real quick. But it makes the pitch easier, because you kind of know about like the reasons why you're going on the show, like how you can add value to that person. But also, it makes it easier for you as the guest because if you can line out kind of some of these avenues, you're basically doing the same. It's like your signature talk, right. So if you are in the speaking circuit live on stage, you're probably giving the exact same speech at all of these different locations, right. And you can do the same with podcasting. So by getting hyper clear on that, at the beginning, you don't have to come up with different topics for every single podcast that you want to go on, you know, this is the this is the value that I'm going to provide that's going to work across all these different categories. And maybe you have one or two different ones that you talk about, but it just makes everything easier.

Dustin Riechmann
It does, yeah, it makes it because you kind of have the like you said kind of the three to five bullet points, like these are the things I'd love to talk about on your show. And we'll talk about the pitch next or like that basically, is gets recycled, right? As long as you stay in the same target market, you can talk about the same things. And it's not boring, even as the yes because me, I don't know how many times I've talked about the five p framework, you know, probably 50 times 100 times I don't know, and I've talked about it from stage I've talked about on a podcast. But it's not boring, because of the format of interviews. It's always different, right? Because like your audience is a little different than last audience. And Sami has different ideas, and she's gonna riff on different parts of this than someone else wouldn't. And so right, being a subject matter expert and knowing that you can talk about these core teaching concepts like that's what that's what I think makes it so uniquely fun to be a podcast guests because it's also human to human. It's not like me, just eating a sound like I'm reading out of a textbook, you know, it changes each time because the dynamic of the conversation changes.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Love that. Okay, so once we kind of have our list pulled together, and we've done our research, I do want to make sure we spend a little bit of time on the pitch because I get pitched several times a day. And my podcast isn't the biggest podcast out there. So if you're really trying to get in with some of the big ones I mean I get some awful pitches that are just like, Hey, I saw your podcast, it looks great. I think I could add a ton of value. Let's chat like, literally, that's it. And those immediately get deleted and ignored. And I'm not even like, like looking at those. So kind of how do we want to approach the pitch? And what things are kind of critical to include in those conversations?

Dustin Riechmann
Yeah, I think we all kind of know what not to do, right? Because we all no matter what, before I even had a podcast, I got a pitch, right. And I have, I've had several different brands online. So I've got, and it's LinkedIn, DMS, and it's emails, and it comes from all Facebook messages. So yeah, we all know it's not like, Hi. And then like the first names in a different font, like, I really love your work, I want to be on your show. So we're not doing that. So the way I like to look at pitches, and I'll talk about it first as like, how to create a master pitch. So just think of this as a master pitch and email format, we can talk after this is created about different ways to use, it doesn't always have to go out as a one single full email. But it's great to create that first. And so it's really three parts. Part one is a relational anchor, and that's gonna get customized to every pitch. The middle part, which is the bulk of the email is like what's in it for the person receiving it rarely, what how can I give value to your audience in the case of a podcast, and so those are those like three to five bullet points that you're going to keep using over and over, because they're going to be your key teaching topics. And those are going to be copy written. So if you've have a little style to them a little curiosity, you can like use numbers, you can name processes, that just to make them stand out and sound more attractive. But that middle part of the emails, basically recyclable, which is awesome, because it's the hardest part to get right the first time. And then the final part is really simple. And that's a clear call to action.

So like, I like to use are you interested? So I'm like pitching them on my ideas? Are you interested? Dustin? Are you interested? It's kind of a beautiful way to close an email, because it's really easy to say yes to and you can say yes to in multiple ways, like I reach out to me in a month, or I am fill out this form, right, and let's book a discovery call, or I am let's do it, you know, so there's lots of ways to tell someone you're not interested at all after they put a very thoughtful, compelling pitch together, you know, that we get 60 to 80% acceptance rates. And it's because we're being thoughtful, we're also being very intentional, who we're reaching out to, and we have these three elements. So I kind of talked about the middle element and the closing. And we can talk more about those. But I think the part that really trips people up is the first part, which is the relational anchors, it's a relational anchors, basically. You're not a random weirdo from the internet, you actually know something.

And it doesn't have to be deep. It's not like, you can actually creepy if you get too deep with it, but But you know, it doesn't take long to. And we train people, we actually train people, we train virtual assistants for people to do this for them after they've created the masterpiece. So I start describing this, if you're a busy, professional, don't be like, Oh my gosh, I'll never do that. You need to do it once, like get it right. So it's in your voice. And then we can help other people do this on your behalf in the way that we do this work. I just say that as kind of a disclaimer, like this is gonna sound like you do this for every pitch. Yes, but we're only sending out a handful of pitches. And then most of them say yes. So this relational anchor is, like I said, you're not a random weirdo for the internet. And then number two, it's really flattery and connection. So it's going to be custom for each podcast. But one of the go to anchors is giving a thoughtful and real reflection on one of their recent episodes. Right? So like, you look through the list of episodes and you find one that's like that's a topic actually care about or hey, that's a story that sounds cool. Or hey, actually know that guest or, Hey, I follow that guest. I've read their book, whatever, you know, like something that's like a real connection. And you could say, Hey, I'm so excited to you interviewed Sammy, recently on episode 301. I've read her book has made a huge impact in my life. And then then you can transition into how you could serve the audience, right? But like a real connection, it could be like I've used, I've seen someone's LinkedIn profile. They're from Chicago, Illinois. Well, I'm from Southern Illinois, like not Chicago, but in Illinois. So it's like, hey, greetings from Southern Illinois. Like, immediately, they know like, oh, this person knows something about me. It's not just completely cold, random email. But it could be. I've used like someone I knew the host was an engineer who became an entrepreneur and well, that's my story, too. So it's like, Hey, I'm a fellow engineer, turned entrepreneur. Well, people aren't gonna ignore that because that's like, oh, that's, I'm gonna lean into that, right? Like, that's interesting. But if you don't know anything about them, you don't spend any time on LinkedIn.

You don't actually listen to an episode. You can still go through the shownotes and pick out a true compelling connection that you share an interest with a connection with, etc. So, but that's the first parts customize the each message it's A little bit of work, but it drives huge results. And I constantly get feedback now, not only for me, but now from clients who do this, people will respond back to this post and be like, this is the best pitch I've ever received, or I ignored 99 of these types of emails, but you really hooked me in with this opener, you know, and so it's a, it's, it's in a simple, it's like, probably, usually two lines, like as an opener, then we transition into, here's who I am and what I do and like one line, and then it's like, here's how I think I can really add value to your audience and as these three to five bullet points, and then are you interested? Well, okay, can

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
I back up? Can I back up to the intro piece real quick, because I, like I think this is where like your research and your purpose also comes back in and is so critical, because I'll get pitches that I can tell are being mass produced. So they're following a similar format to what you're sharing, they'll they'll call out my podcast, they'll say, Oh, I really liked episode, whatever that you like, they will give me like a one liner, but then where it falls flat is then the pitch that they're giving me is not even my audience. So I'm immediately like, if you if you actually listen to my podcast, didn't just pull out or like, even looked at the show notes briefly, like you would know, I talked to nonprofits. And you're talking to me about like, seven figure entrepreneurs who are trying to like scale and grow like there's no alignment there. So I think, to your point, it does take extra time, but you like it's so worth it, because I agree when I get those that are I can tell they looked at my podcast, I can tell they've at least they know who my audience is. And they're giving me topics, so I don't have to think about it. That is a win win. But just make sure that your research is backing up that purpose, otherwise, they're not going to close.

Dustin Riechmann
Yeah, so you need to look at the episodes. The other thing you can do in the same screen, you know, in the same moment in like Apple, iTunes, as an example is on the left side, you'll see the host summary of their show, right, like this show is or nonprofits, you know, like, yeah, so then you're even if you're like, typically talking to marketing shows, or business shows, maybe your bullets are very oriented towards that, like, hey, how to double your profits? Well, you probably you would need to tweak it in that case, that's going to turn you off. So you might say, how we take a strategy usually applied to for profit businesses, and let nonprofits use it to improve their fundraising, right, or that slide would be like a bullet point modification. The other thing I would say like I didn't pitch, Sami, because we have a mutual friend who made this connection. And by the way, once you get in this rhythm, and you do some of these cold pitches, and you get some success, I like I haven't written a pitch in two years, because the momentum kind of carries itself and people start referring you and like you become the authority and people start asking you to come on the show, that sort of thing happens. But we're talking about like, when you're first getting started, how do you do this effectively? My point was, if I was pitching Sami, I would probably I'm thinking relational anchors, just on the fly right here. You know, knowing that we have a mutual friend who's been a guest on the show, I would reference that. But if I didn't even know that I would say, Oh, she does nonprofit work. And I would say with full sincerity, say like, I work mostly with entrepreneurs, but I have a real passion for nonprofit work. My wife's on the board of a local pregnancy resource center, and I've worked with them on their marketing. Like now you're completely like, Okay, this guy is kind of admitting like, he's not a nonprofit consultant. But he does have a true connection to it. Right? Like, I've helped them my wife's on the board. And I'm on the board of a nonprofit that I can mention, too. But the point is, yeah, don't lie. Make sure you're actually paying attention to who their audience is. Yeah, and customize a program. I

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
love that. Okay, well, I want to touch on kind of one last piece to this before we kind of wrap this up. And that is, you know, you might feel really comfortable and ready to go and you know, your topic. But how important, you know, and how should we prep for kind of that? Because I feel like a lot of people sometimes fumble at the end when it's like, okay, well how can people connect with you? Or how can people learn more or continue to, to work or learn more about your organization? Like, we kind of want to have that response, like really locked and loaded, we want to know where we're sending people to, like, kind of what are your best tips for creating that call to action at the end to kind of in to see that engagement to kind of lead into that profit side at the end of of your framework?

Dustin Riechmann
Yeah, absolutely. So one, clear call to action, right, like so, we get the end of the episode. I mean, like step one be so like, step one is the purpose and like, hey, well who do I want to serve and how do I want to serve them? And if you've got like, your offer, and again, offer could mean for profit, it could be you know, whatever. The goals you're trying to drive with your nonprofit, nonprofit, or maybe you're trying to sell books, like whatever your goal is, what's the like mini step towards that goal that you can provide that gives people real value. And that makes a great next step and call to action. So once you know what that thing is, and sometimes you know, there's, that's a whole episode in and of itself, as Sami knows, is like, it could be a simple checklist could be a PDF, it could be a video, it can be an assessment, it could be a lot of different forms. But the important thing is it leads the audience who the audience who is interested in learning more about what you do and perhaps working with you, or serving your organization? How can you give them just like a bite sized piece of value that is independently valuable, but also then leads them to want to go even deeper? Because the reality is, people listened to you on the podcast, 90 plus percent, will remain invisible forever. Anonymous, I'm never going to know most of the people who hear this, Sammy, but for the ones that are like, I think I think podcast guests is actually something we should pursue. I want to know more well, that I'm going to give them and I'll demonstrate this in a second. I'm gonna give them one clear next step like hey, do you want to go do more go do this thing. And make that thing very easy to remember. URL typically, right? Like a website name otherwise, in other words, right. So it's very clear, it's easy to remember many people listening to podcasts, or driving or running or doing other things. And of course, the host will put it in the show notes. But if you can make it memorable, it's way better. But the main problem I see with most people is they, they either don't have a good one, like there's like, no one wants it. So like that's not going to work. But it can be the juiciest thing ever people really want. And if you make it one of five potential things that could go do then like no one's going to do anything. Because there's, you know, the decision fatigue, it's like, I can't remember, there's like five different things you said I could do, I guess, I'm just gonna go back to, you know, tiktoks, it's good. I don't know exactly what to do. And it has to be very clear and have it have to be one thing. So

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
I love that. And I think that that is critical in general and any marketing that you're doing, right, we tend to overcomplicate and want to like word vomit, all the amazing things we do. Nonprofits are notorious for this. I say this all the time. And the goal is really just to get people to be more excited and want to learn more, you'll have time to do that, if you can keep it simple. But if you complicate it, like you said that you lose it, and you missed that opportunity. So I think that's great. One kind of last question on that is when you are doing your call to action do you have and this might be this is definitely more diving into the weeds a little bit than maybe we need to go but do you do like a separate URL like for all of my, when I'm guest podcasting, I have one URL that I use just for my podcast, and then I have a different URL that I use, like maybe on my paid advertising, even if it's all driving to the same place so that you can kind of track activity there or as you're kind of trying to see what avenues are working for you. And not Do you just keep everything the same kind of how do you approach them?

Dustin Riechmann
Yeah, I typically keep it the same to your point for podcasts guesting, right, so basically, if you know, and I tried different ones, so it varies, but if I have one that I know works, well, I'm probably just gonna use the same one 80% 90% of the time, the exception would be if you get like a really big opportunity, so that I'm like, I want to kind of pull it out separately, then yeah, like from a tactical standpoint, I would probably clone the landing page, give it a different URL. So that can track it specifically. And so as an example, for me, I was on a show called Digital Marketer. And it's a company I kind of grew up with and admired is very full circle moment, they have a sizable audience. And so I took the same lead magnet that I typically or call to action that I typically provide. And I just made it like sevenfigureleap.com/dm, instead of playbook answer DM for digital marketer. So that does a couple things. For one, it makes it more trackable. Two, it makes the audience feel like this is a custom gift for their for them. And then for me like on that page, I had a banner at the top this is a thin banners like welcome, fellow Digital Marketer fans, or whatever, right? So like, they felt like, Oh, this is one of us. And so I did that. I've done that for several larger shows. But in general, I use the same one just for simplicity sake. Because, wow, you know, I'm a marketer. I'm an engineer. Before that, of course, I love tracking but the reality is, this is a game of very loose attribution, meaning like, when I get clients for our flagship program, and I started talking to them, it's usually a conversation like, Well, I think I heard you on a podcast and I start following you on LinkedIn on your list and then someone so you and so it's like it's not that tight, to be able to say like, it's not that important, I should say like how many specific 12 are 22 or 42 leads from this one podcast, in most cases doesn't really matter. So that's why I just keep it simple because otherwise, if I knew I had to like create a custom landing page for every show, URL, I would URL and two, I would just like, not be as excited about going and doing the guessing, which is the most important part of it. Because I'd be overcomplicating the process beyond that, so I love them.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
Okay, well, if you're not convinced to start guests podcasting by now, then you're kind of crazy. Go out and do it. Try it. Have fun with it. I know I can. I'm harsh with my audience sometimes, because I think we also tend to overcomplicate some of these new things. And it can really start just with a simple conversation with some of your favorite podcasts and just maybe test the waters. But I love your framework. I love what you shared. And kind of your approach with with the story first, I think that that's fantastic. But if people want to connect with you more, Dustin, how do they do that?

Dustin Riechmann
I feel this pressure because I'm like now I know you've just made a big deal out of it. So yes, I do have a resource for people, if they're like, I'm curious about guest podcasting, I'm not exactly sure how we would get started or what what goals we would want to establish for our organization. I have a playbook that's got a calculator in there about what this can do for your organization. It's got some case studies that will give you some very clear examples to follow. And it really breaks down that framework in more detail, so that you could see exactly step by step what to do to actually get started. And so my company is called seven figure leap with a P. And so seven figure leap.com/playbook is the place to go to get that it's free. sevenfigureleap.com/playbook is my single call to action. And of course from there, you can find me and get on socials and all that stuff, you know, in a newsletter. But the main thing is do get the free playbook. And if you're just curious about this, or if you're like, I've tried this, but haven't been able to do it and drive the results I want, I think that playbook will unlock a lot for you.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
So yeah, and we'll have all the social media links and the link to that playbook in the show notes at the first click dotnet slash 261. So that'll be easy for you to grab there as well. Dustin, this was a wonderful conversation, I still have so many questions. So we may have to have you come back and do like another deep dive on to some of these other topics. Because I know we just scratched the surface here. But thank you so much for being a guest today.

Dustin Riechmann
Yeah, thanks, Sami. It's my honor and be happy to come back. It's like this is one of those topics that people are like, I have 15 minutes. Let's talk about podcast guests. I can teach you for 90 days straight of what to do with it. So there's a lot more here. But yeah, but I love the opportunity to be here, share with your audience and just encourage everyone to keep up the good work they're doing in the world. Okay,

Sami Bedell-Mulhern
so which part are you most excited about figuring out kind of how you can make the most out of guests podcasting, starting to research, the podcasts that you want to be on, kind of jumping in to the topics that you want to talk about whatever it is, I know that there's going to be takeaways from this episode that you'll be able to come back to over time, as you kind of work the process of guesting on podcasts. The show notes for this episode are at thefirstclick.net/261 and there you can find all Dustin's information as well as the playbook that he mentioned. For now. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Leave us a review if you don't mind and share this podcast with another nonprofit organization that you know could use some support in their digital marketing strategies. For now, I really appreciate you choosing to listen to digital marketing therapy. Thank you so much for being here, and I look forward to seeing you in the next one.

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