Ep 244 | Getting Started with Funnels with Mikael Dia

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Funnels aren't just for sales teams. They are a way to understand how people become donors so you can get more of them! Funnels can help you create better donor and customer experiences while automating many of the actions. Learn how to set up a funnel, how to test and what to know before you get started. 

What you'll learn:

→ funnels can include offline and online activities.
→ how to get started with creating one.
→ mistakes people make with their funnels.
→ why the data should be around the people, not just the numbers.

Want to skip ahead? Here are key takeaways:

[7:17] At their core, funnels help you organize your content so that it hits the ideal customer with the right information at the right time to simplify their buying decision. It's more about crafting a great journey that allows you to build trust and guide them. This is opposed to you throwing everything you have out there and assuming people will know how they can best engage and support your organization.
[13:00] Three core things every funnel needs: a way for people to convert, ability to capture their contact information, and a plan to nurture them. Thinking about all of these elements at the beginning ensures you have a way to turn first-time donors and customers into repeat customers and donors.
[20:47] Understand who you're talking to. Get to know their pain points and what they care about. That way you know that your messaging and efforts are going to be worthwhile. It also ensures you craft your funnels around people, and not just the value of the transaction (or lack thereof).


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Mikael Dia

Mikael Dia

Founder, Funnelytics

Mikael Dia, a seasoned digital marketing expert and founder of Funnelytics, has navigated the entrepreneurial landscape with a passion for scaling businesses to seven figures. Through his innovative software, Funnelytics.io, Mikael simplifies marketing funnel analysis, empowering entrepreneurs to optimize customer journeys effectively. With a commitment to data-driven decision-making, Mikael brings practical insights to the podcast, offering a fresh perspective on marketing, conversions, and the ever-evolving digital landscape. Learn more: https://funnelytics.io/ 

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Full Transcript

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] At the end of the day, our goal is to get people to donate to our organization. And we can do this in a lot of ways, right? How we connect with them online, how we connect them in person networking, emails, whatever, all the things. And we really are doing all of these actions in order to get them to convert, get to the website. While you may not think of this as a funnel, this is basically a funnel. And maybe you haven't put some thought into how you organize it and lay it out. Or maybe you're not testing the different areas of your funnel to see what's working and what maybe needs to be tweaked. But by putting some time and effort into creating these funnels, it can save you a lot of time and effort. In the long run. It can bring your team together in a more impactful way and help you get more donors coming through the door. So that is what we are going to talk about today and I'm so excited for my guest, who is going to be sharing all of his amazing words of wisdom and insights and strategies with you today.

Mikael Dia is a seasoned digital marketing expert and founder of Funnelytics. He has navigated the entrepreneurial landscape. Well my goodness, that was a mouthful. He has navigated the entrepreneurial landscape with a passion for scaling businesses to seven figures. Through his innovative software for analytics.io. Mikael simplifies marketing funnel analysis, Empowering Entrepreneurs to optimize customer journeys more effectively. With a commitment to data driven decision making. Mikael brings practical insights to the podcast, offering a fresh perspective on marketing conversions, and an ever evolving digital landscape. Now, I know as a nonprofit, you might feel like funnels aren't going to work for you, or customer journeys aren't the right thing. But remember what we talked about all the time on this podcast, that it's really about connecting and providing value to your donors so that they come in, they're the right donors that they stick around for a long time. And you can continue to build your base of donors, so that you can have more sustainability and more financial or less financial stress. I was gonna say financial freedom, but that didn't really make sense.

So I really hope that you take this episode to heart, take a listen and just get started with kind of putting your pen to paper, you probably already have some funnels in place. But now it's time to start actually putting some thought into how your customers and your donors experience working with you, and what that looks like in the long run. For now, before we get into this episode, this episode is brought to you by our February freebie, so this month, it's all about monthly giving. And so we've got 50 ways that you can add value to your monthly giving programs. Now, obviously, you don't need all 50. But definitely check it out and see if it gives you ideas and inspires you into how you can create a monthly giving program that has great community energy and excitement, and most of all retention and increase of gifts over time. So you can grab this freebie at https://thefirstclick.net/resources or in any of the February podcasts episodes. For now, let's get into the episode.

[Intro] You're listening to the digital marketing therapy podcast. I'm your host, Sami Bedell-Mulhern. Each month we dive deep into a digital marketing or fundraising strategy that you can implement in your organization. Each week, you'll hear from guest experts, nonprofits, and myself on best practices, tips and resources to help you raise more money online and reach your organizational goals.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Hey, everybody, please join me in welcoming Mikael Dia to the podcast. Mikael, thanks for being here today.

[Mikael Dia] Thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, so I feel like the word funnels gets thrown around a lot. And you know, it's something that maybe we attribute to maybe more of a you know, for profit business or a sales strategy. But before we kind of jump into what we're talking about today, why funnels? Why is that something that you enjoy talking about? And created a business around? Yeah,

[Mikael Dia] I mean, I think you're 100% right, we have this conception of funnels, whether it's been, because of you know, the types of people that we see online, we see a lot about, you know, making money online, or, you know, how, in front of cars, and they were, it's become this kind of pervasive thought process that, oh, this is just associated with the just generating revenue and scammy and all that stuff. But what you really need to understand is, is a funnel is just a word to think about how are we streamlining the process from getting a stranger to take action on the thing that we want them to take action on. Now, most of the time when we talking about sales funnels, that thing is a purchase, right? It's about turning a stranger into a customer. But fundamentally all a funnel is is architecting and thinking about what are the series of steps that we need to put together in order to get this random person who's never ever heard heard of us before, to actually take action and pull out their credit card and actually pay money or fill out a form and give us their details or whatever that action is that we're trying to drive. So that's just the kind of misconception that people have. But funnels happen everywhere. I mean, if you think of on online or even offline, it's not just an online kind of methodology, it's just a way to streamline a process. So think of offline as an example. You know, you can have a store where it's in a high traffic area, and basically, people will walk in, and they'll just browse around, and maybe they'll find something, maybe they won't, and then they'll leave, right. There are stores, though, that have high traffic in high traffic areas where there's somebody standing outside of the store, they're grabbing your attention with some sort of sign, or they're grabbing your attention with, you know, some pamphlets or something like this, that then brings you into the store. And then there's somebody in the store within greets you and says hello and says, you know, what are you looking for? Is there any way I can help you and, and if you are looking for something, they'll point you in the right direction? And and basically, they're just streamlining that process towards you getting what you need, right? So fundamentally, that is also a funnel, right? What are the series of steps? And can we measure those steps, in order to understand okay, is somebody moving from stage A to stage B to Stage C, and eventually pulling out their credit card and making a purchase. So hopefully, that kind of helps people rewire their brain around Oh, I do need a funnel, because I need to architect a journey to get people to actually take the action I want them to take.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, and what I like about this reframe is it's really being thoughtful about the donor experience or the customer experience from before you acquire them, till they kind of make that decision. And it's really kind of helping you craft the experience that you want people to have in a thoughtful way, which is the complete opposite of kind of how you started, you know, where we think that it's kind of a salesy gross kind of game plan. Yeah, the

[Mikael Dia] biggest challenge is, we're inundated with things all the time, right? We with social media, and our phones and notifications, and kids and family, and we're constantly in this mindset. And a lot of times, businesses, nonprofits, any anybody kind of sits there and says, You know what, we're just going to let people figure it out, right? We're just not, we're not going to, we're not going to invade them, we're just going to basically say, Here's everything we've got, we've got all of our info on this website, we've got all of our blogs that you can go through to learn. We've got everything that you need, you go and figure it out on your own time. Well, if you think about your own life, and you sit there and you say, Do I have the time to do this? Like, do I have the time to read all these blogs? Do I have the time to go through all these pages? Do I have the know, I just want to know, okay, well, are you going to help me solve my problem? Are you going to help me achieve a desire that I'm trying to achieve? Or are you going to make me kind of, you know, be able to give back in the way that I want to give back? Does it line up with my values? Does it line up with what I'm trying to achieve? And and Do I like you? And if those are all being answered properly, and basically saying, like, hey, come to us, let me make sure I create a journey that just answers those things, and then go and take action. It's so much easier than just basically saying, figure it out. Here's all the stuff we've got go and figure it out.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Because I think one of the biggest mistakes that we make, is, in general, is not having, like you said those direct calls to action. So we they come into our funnel where we want them to, and if we don't give them that clear to find easy next step, then we've lost them in that work we've done to get them to that stage is kind of all for nothing, you

[Mikael Dia] know, you know what's interesting? Again, we assume that people know what happens or what to do, and a confused mind never buys. If they're uncertain about what's going to happen. They're not going to buy, they're not going to donate, they're not going to actually take that action. A lot of times you know what's interesting, we were testing this a lot and when you have a simple you know page and you say hey, just just go to this page, and you can sign up right? If you just do it like that versus go to this page. Click on this button, put in your details right here. Once you hit the submit button, you'll be taken to this page where you'll see this stuff right here, the conversions when we actually outline everything significantly go up compared to when we just say, just go to this page and go and put in your details. And we'll be good to go. And the reason for that is because, again, we are constantly in a stage in a state of mind where as consumers, there's so much being thrown at us all the time. It's like, well, what do I trust? Do I, I don't know what happens when I put in my info on this, like, are you you're just going to take my credit card and leave? Are you? Are you going to follow up with me afterwards? And the minute I'm confused or uncertain, I'm just gonna back away. Right? So we do have to ask, yeah, we do have to have the call to action, we have to be very, very clear as to what happens, how do we do it? And how do we drive that person to the next stage?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, and we say this all the time, especially with, you know, if your call to action is if your goal is to get people on your email list, right? You can't just say, sign up for my newsletter, it has to be, you know, this is what you're gonna get from the newsletter, this is how often we're going to communicate with you, this is what you can kind of expect, because I think we're also so afraid that we're just going to all of a sudden get bombarded with these messages that we don't want or care about, yeah,

[Mikael Dia] it's 2024, it's no and it's up 2004 People aren't excited join newsletters anymore, like hid their emails, I don't know about your Gmail account, but mine is just full of insane amount of things that I've signed up over the last 20 years. And, and that, you know, and that's the same for everybody else. So the last thing they want is more stuff that doesn't help them get closer towards their goals, right. And the case of, you know, a donor in case of basically, you know, achieving that aspect of wanting to donate Well, there's a goal that I'm trying to achieve as a consumer, there's a reason why I want to donate, and if this doesn't help me get closer to that, I don't need more information, I just need a way a path towards achieving that goal that I want to achieve. And if you're just gonna give me more stuff, I've already got enough stuff, like we live in a consumerism world, right? So that's just the reality of it.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Okay, so, you know, I think the other thing that kind of stops, people from building Funnels is kind of the overwhelm, and that we need a funnel for every single thing that we're trying to accomplish. And then there's like, all these steps, and then we have to create all this content, I think we stop ourselves before we even get started. So kind of, Could you walk us through maybe some steps or ways we might want to think about, you know, which funnel Should we start with? And maybe what are what are some ways that we can just get started and start testing so we can start putting more into action? Yeah.

[Mikael Dia] So every funnel has, especially in the online space, if we want somebody to kind of take action through an online, you know, we're not trying to get them to our store or something like that, let's, let's stay focused in kind of the online world for a minute. There's two core things that we always need in a funnel, the number one thing is we need a way to get somebody to convert. So in our case, put in their credit card, or however they're going to donate basically a way for them to convert right. Now, in order for them to converge, there will need to be a page that explains to them very precisely, all the benefits, all the the reasons, touches on their desires, touches on a bit of their pains, and basically tells them, this is what you're putting in your credit card for right, this is what you're going to get. That's your sales page. Every every every business in the world will need a sales page for their core offer. And then of course, attached to that sales page is some sort of order form where I can put in that credit card, right? That is my main conversion point. So no matter what, I will need something there. Then, on the very front, what we need to realize is that most people don't take action the first time. So if I were to basically meet you for the very first time, and I were to say, hey, go check out my sales page and go check out this page on how to donate and all this stuff. likelihood that you're going to take action right then in there that very first time is really really low. Right? Because you don't know me. You don't know if you're like, Yeah, sure, maybe the sales page looks good, but there's still not enough trust here for me to basically say, Yeah, this is this is where I want to go. So that's at the very front we need to somehow capture somebody's contact details. We need to be able to follow up with you. We need to be able to be simply continue to nurture that relationship over the course of time. Some people, maybe 2%, will say, yes, fine, I'm going to go and put in my credit card, I'm going to donate right away, right, but the other 98% won't. Now, over time, that will increase from, you know, the 98 will end up being 9796. And then the number of people who donate is going to increase if you continue to follow up and nurture that relationship. So at the very, we must have some sort of conversion page to capture their details. And at the very front, we need some sort of way to capture their contact details, right? Usually an email, ideally, as well, a phone number, right? Now, the way we're going to do this, is by offering them something that is of value to them. Most, most of the times nobody wants to sign up to a newsletter, they might, but it doesn't mean that they're going to do anything with that newsletter. So what can you think of that all of your donors kind of have in terms of a pain, or in terms of a desire, and something that is informative that you can get them to download, whether it's a some sort of checklist, some sort of PDF, some sort of mini course on how to choose the best program to donate to, etcetera, right? Something that is going to give them some value, and build a little bit of goodwill, when they put in their their name and email. And then, depending on the complexity of the sale, depending on on how expensive, we're going to need to do something in the middle between. So no matter what at the very beginning, we need to capture somebody's name and email, and ideally phone number, at the very end, we need some sort of page that is going to explain what is it that they're donating for all this stuff on the sales with some sort of order form to capture their their payment details. And then in between, we're going to need to nurture and educate that relationship, usually in the form of emails and drip sequences, maybe some phone calls, and some text messages, maybe some webinars that we're going to do to kind of educate them further. But basically, that is the three key aspects of any funnel, capture their contact details, nurture them, educate them, send them to somewhere where they can actually go and make that conversion.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, well, and I think the interesting part about once you set that up is like, you'll start to learn more about what resonates with your donors and what doesn't, right, because maybe you're testing two different value add or freebies or offers that they can get and one converts way better than the other. And so like even through that process, you're learning more about who those ideal donors are that you can take into your other marketing efforts, like offline, or, or other conversations that you're targeting.

[Mikael Dia] Yeah, you know, one of the best, best ways to capture people's contact details, and also build a lot of goodwill, is to basically have some sort of survey. And now the, the result of the survey has to give me some things, but like, you know, those personality type quizzes that tell you like whether you're whatever, like people love to do those things, because it tells them something about themselves. But guess what it also does, it basically tells the company everything about you, and then knows exactly what type of person you are, etc. So imagine you have a survey that kind of helps people understand what kind of donor are your what is the best type of program for you to donate to right? And you just ask a series of questions. And on the thank you page, there's the result there. It's like, okay, well, this is the best type of fit for you. Well, you've just captured their name, their email, their phone number, you've given them value. And now you've created a transition for you to basically say, hey, based on everything you just told us, these are the types of programs and guess what, here's this page where you can learn about a program that fits fits exactly what you're talking about, right? And then throughout that nurturing sequence now, you know, based on their survey details, who are they what are they looking for, what are they interested in? Is it that they want to donate to children's causes, is it that they want to donate to, you know, out of country and somewhere somewhere else, you know, veterans whatever it may be. That will help you kind of create that nurturing path throughout that process. So whenever we work with clients, or whenever we look at even in infant analytics, the data we see that just the best types of lead magnets, that's what we kind of call them the way to capture their contacts is usually these types of surveys. Because they automatically start to segment people and give us information about who they are.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, and I think list segmentation is something that organizations struggle with. But I think this is a great way to get started. And then you know, maybe wouldn't even if you don't have something right now that's available to them. Once you know that you've, maybe you're developing, you've got something in the works. And so you kind of want to gauge interest. Now, you also have an opportunity to reach out to people and say, Hey, here's a sneak peek, or you get to hear about this first, we know you're interested or really target that follow up. So going back to your point about the email being bombarded, you know, they're getting super targeted stuff about what they care about, and not just kind of your broad, general information. Yeah,

[Mikael Dia] it's interesting, because when I first launched analytics, our software company, in the first two months, I didn't have anything to sell people we had a, our, you know, a lead magnet at the time was basically a free mapping tool that people could use to map out their customer journeys. But in order for me to understand who they were, you know, are you a small business? Are you an agency? Are you a large business? Like, do you have a team? Do you? Are you ecommerce? Are you software, like what cut, you know, if I would have just said, Hey, here's this free mapping tool. And I would have tried to basically sell my thing afterwards to just generically versus now what I did is having that survey made me just really understand who's coming into our world can we actually craft our offers and our positioning for the segment that we actually want to go after versus, generically? Hey, signed up for a free mapping tool? I have no idea why you did. But cool, like you hear you hear?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, and that I think, too, with Funnels is building over time, right. So if we start with this core funnel, that's for your signature, program, course, whatever, you start there, as you kind of grow, then those niche audiences can kind of grow along with it, right, you know, that this funnel works for this audience, and now we're ready maybe to talk to a different, slightly different audience. So we can kind of just change the messaging and duplicate it for their motivations, their value statements, and, and kind of double down on a kind of a user experience that we know is, is working for our organization. Yeah,

[Mikael Dia] our that is our job is, I have, I've always know it's very, very challenging. However, you scale by simplifying not by creating complexity, and, and in order to scale. And in order to simplify, you need to reduce how many people you speak to, or at least reduce, not the number of people you speak to, you need to reduce the range of types of people that you speak to, right, you need to basically have one clear message for one clear person who wants one clear outcome. And if you can find a way to narrow and continuously narrow that down, it makes everything much more effective. And then you can can say, Okay, well, great. I've got it working really, really well for, you know, this particular segment. And with this particular offer, and this particular package, or whatever it may be, and then you say, Okay, well, I want to now, ramp it up by offering this new one. Well, that new one is going to be a new experiment, we don't know yet, how best to tweak the message. But what we don't want to do is dilute the one that's already working by tweaking the message and changing and broadening that specific one, we want that funnel for this particular segment. And then we want to go and say, Okay, well, now if we're going to go after a different segment, we're going to test and build a new funnel to try to bring that group of people in. Because again, the bigger the message, the harder it is to get people through all those different stages of your funnel.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah. Okay, so one kind of last thing that I want to make sure we touch on, because testing is so critical to understanding what's working and what's not. I think we tend to make decisions in the nonprofit space based off of emotion and not data. Or we don't want to believe the data that's coming in because we know what's best and we know everything. Because, you know, I think as you alluded to earlier, our customers or our donors that we're going after don't know all of the intricacies of what's going on in the organization. So nor do they need to. So how long should we kind of test a funnel before we start to make tweaks and when we do start to make tweaks, you know, do you recommend like one at a time so that you can test it like what does that process kind of look like? Free.

[Mikael Dia] Yeah. So it's not about length. It's about people. Okay, so the biggest thing that people, the biggest misconception that we have in kind of marketing and in this world is, how much money did I spend? How much money did I make? And what does that now look like? The problem with that mindset is we are forgetting that it's actually people that are going through these these steps and not dollars, right. As a company, our job is to look at our financial statements and look at our dollars and understand what's happening. But the reality is your those dollars are made up of people who actually pulled out their credit cards and did something. Now what ends up happening is we go and say, Okay, well, man, I spent $10,000 on Facebook ads, and I only got one donor, right? And it's like, and that donors paying us 20 bucks a month. That doesn't work. Right? You're right, the math from that standpoint doesn't work. But what you need to understand is okay, how many people went to your landing page for your survey? Let's say, from that $10,000? Okay, you had about 1000 people. Okay, so that's about $10 per person, but you had 1000 people going to that page, that's enough people to basically understand what's the conversion on to the next day? So out of that 1000 people, how many of them went over the next step? Oh, okay. 300 people, that's about 30%. I'll live with that. That's 300 People have landed to the next stage right. Now, let's say that next stage is directly your your sales page. So if I've seen that there's 300 people onto that sales page for for my offer, and only one but okay, now I can say that there's a problem there. Because there, you know, whatever that percentage is a point three, or whatever that may be. There's something not working at that stage, right. But a lot of times what ends up happening is 300 people or let's say 1000 People go through, and only that conversion over there is actually only like, I don't know, 10. So I spent all this money, only 10 people land on my sales page. I'm like, Oh, this isn't working, while only 10 People saw your page, like how are you supposed to make a decision? If only, like, what if the 11th buys? Right? You it changes those metrics completely. So it's not about time, it's about number of people. Now as a rule of thumb, we always want to think in purchases. In sorry, in percentages. So the very, very minimum you should ever look at is 100. Right? If there's 100 people that go to a page, now at least you can say that okay, well, 20 went in, that's about 20%. Right? I can kind of roughly estimate that if another 100 people, if they were the same, I would get probably another 20. So the percentage would stay relatively the same. Typically, if you really kind of want to be real significance, you're probably looking more at 1000. But that's the rule of thumb that I give everybody. If you haven't gotten 100 people at every step of your funnel, and you're trying to make a decision, then that decision will be flawed, that decision will be biased. And you will just basically sit there and say, well, this isn't working. Well, no, it somewhere along the funnel isn't working. But which one? Have I been able to get 100 People across each step? That's how I kind of start to think about the decision making. So hopefully, that didn't get too technical. And that kind of makes no. But yeah, that's the best way to make total sense.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, I think that that's great, too, because then it automatically tells you what step might need some adjusting, like, and you know, as you track those numbers, you can really clearly see trends over time, and kind of see how, you know, things are moving and where maybe you got it wrong, and where things are going really well. So I think that makes a ton of sense. And I think is a lot easier for people to swallow like okay, I don't have to run these Facebook ads or I don't have to run paid advertising around hops, you know, put out all this money for six months hoping that it works. It's like no, we can adjust in real time as we start to see the traffic coming through and where people are getting

[Mikael Dia] give you a very, very specific example. So we were running a webinar for one of our offers. And what most people assume is I'm going to launch these Facebook ads and they're going to work or if they don't work, then that means that Facebook ads don't work right. So what they're going to do they're gonna say, Okay, well, I'm gonna go and spend 100 bucks. And let's see what happens. So they go and spend 100. And maybe they spend 1000 Doesn't really matter. And again, out of that $100 They're sitting there and they're like, Well, I didn't make any money. And then you look at the numbers and you see, oh, well, it's it's $10 per person that clicked on your ad. That means that literally only 10 People went to your landing page. So of course, you didn't make any money. You you literally presented this to 10 people. Yeah, you spent $100. But you didn't catch yourself from the dollar amount. And you just look at people then then you can see why didn't work. Now, when I was running this webinar, the first kind of $1,500 that we spent on on experimenting, the literally went in the water, it was just we've spent the $1,500, we saw a I don't remember exactly. It was maybe like, out of that $1,500 300 People went to our landing page, but only about 30 went and registered for our webinar out of the 300. So most people would say, well, this isn't working. Right. And they would stop I spent $1,500. I made no dollars back, okay, well, no, what's not working is we were able to get 300 people to the site, we only got 30 of them to register for my webinar. So now I need to run a test as to Can I tweak this this registration page to see if I can get another 300 and increase. So that's what we did, we spent another 1500 Still the same 300 people or a new batch of 300 people went to our landing page, but because we tweaked the landing page, now, instead of only 10%, opting in, we had 35%, opting it because we made a tweak. So now we had, like, out of the I don't know, instead of 30, it was 100 or so that registered for the webinar. Right. So now okay, we can now see is a webinar working, is it not because we actually have a good sample size across the board, but it did cost me that first 1500, then another 1500 to test the next batch. And then we realize, okay, the webinars not converting the way we want it to, let's look at how are where people watching, are they dropping, etc, we realize some sweet some tweaks spent another 1500 Still no sales at this stage, right. But we're already at 45 spend. And now we've gotten to the stage after $7,000 of spend, where the webinar and the whole funnels working. And for every dollar we put in, we're making $3 back because we spent the time tweaking. But if I didn't keep looking at this in terms of people and not be so attached to the dollar amount. If I was attached to the dollar amount, I would have stopped it after number one or number two, it's like oh, man, I spent $1,000, I got nothing back. This isn't working, right. But when I started looking at the actual number of people going through each step and looking at the data, now all of a sudden, even though we wasted $7,000 experimenting, or I prefer to say I invested $7,000 experimenting, now the numbers are starting to work. And now we can actually kind of wrap this up and scale this right. So that's just that people need to have be less attached to the dollars and cents be more attached to the actual people behind the numbers. And then you can truly measure.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, I think another reframe for this also with nonprofits and the monthly giving program and why I think this is such a fantastic mindset shift is, a lot of times when it comes to your monthly giving program, people will say oh, well, one donor at $5 a month isn't as valuable as me spending time to go get one donor one time gift $5,000. Right. Yep. But but we don't know the capacity of that person, they might just be getting started with us, you know, we don't know what their capacity is. And like that mindset of monthly donors are still going to be giving more money over their, their lifetime with you if you do it right. Compared to all that effort, you put into that one time gift that you don't have that you no guarantee if they're going to come back again. So I think managing the success of your monthly giving program by the number of donors, and the donor retention can be so much more valuable. And I think what you're saying is in line with that with how we approach our funnel, so I love that. I also want to mention that for nonprofits, if you're hearing how much money he's spending on ads. Like don't let that be a deterrent to like really start to build these things out. Because you also have access to the Google Ad grant which gives you free ad spend. I mean, it's not really quite that easy. You have to put some effort into though and testing to those ads. But that is also an opportunity for you to be able to do some of these testings and things that we're talking about here. Without a huge out of pocket ad expense.

[Mikael Dia] Yeah. And it's not just ads, right? I say ads because it's fast. And it's a good example of like dollars in dollars out. But any traffic, whether you spend a whole bunch of time and effort building your blog content and your social media presence, at the end of the day, if you're going to sit there and say, Man, I spent six months doing this, and and overall, that effort, you're kind of sitting there and oh, well, it's actually only resulted in, in, you know, whatever, 100 people going to my site, or maybe I've built a big social media following, but they're not moving to the next step. Don't assume that the strategy isn't working, just realize that okay, well, am I measuring people across every step of the funnel that I'm trying to move them down. And if I have, if I've built a big, let's say, Instagram, following over those courses, six months, and people are going to my site from that Instagram following most, if they're not donating, that doesn't mean that Instagram isn't working, it means that you were able to build a following you were able to get people to your site, something's broken here on your site, where they're not moving to the next step. So it's not that Instagram didn't work, or that Facebook ads or Google ads or whatever tactic you use, the tactic will work. It's whether or not you're looking at it across across the whole funnel. Right? So that's very important. Yeah.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] That's so good. Well, so many amazing tips and, and strategies for how to get started here and how to think about funnels in a different way. I think this was super helpful. Any last words of wisdom? Otherwise, I'd love for you to share how people can connect with you and learn a little bit more about analytics. Yeah.

[Mikael Dia] No, no, no other words of wisdom, I don't think I mean, you just remember that it's about the customer journey. It's about the journey of the person and not from our business. A lot of times we get stuck in our own mindset that it's about our business. It's not, it's about the people that you're serving, and you need to think about it from a customer journey standpoint.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, so where can people connect with you? And how can they learn more about all the resources and things that you Yeah,

[Mikael Dia] the best place is on LinkedIn, that's where I kind of post most of my, my content and stuff like that. So you can find me on LinkedIn by just looking for McHale, dia, I don't think there's that many of us out there with that name. And typically, you'll see me with my fall attics hat on. And otherwise, if you're interested in if you have a digital marketing team, or or people in your digital marketing department, and they want to measure how people are moving across the funnels, you can check out for analytics.io That is our software that helps you better visualize and optimize your customer journeys.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Love that and we will link all of that in the show notes at https://thefirstclick.net/244 We can, Mikael, thank you for being here and sharing all of your amazing insight on the funnel. My pleasure.

[Mikael Dia] Thanks for having me.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Okay, so what was your biggest takeaway from Mikael's podcast episode? What are you most excited to start implementing? Are you gonna get to the drawing board and start mapping out what your funnels look like? You already have a funnel in place. And now you're inspired to do more testing. You know, the testing and the technical side can be really overwhelming. But remember what the free tool like Google Analytics, we're utilizing Microsoft clarity, you can get a lot of those started with ease. So check out the show notes for this episode at https://thefirstclick.net/244 will have everything linked up there and additional resources that McHale talked about. And make sure you subscribe wherever you're listening right now, just hit the subscribe button so you don't miss out on any of the other amazing episodes we have this month all around monthly giving. Or you can watch them on YouTube if you want to watch the video versions of these episodes as well. Thank you so much for listening and taking time to put these strategies in place and to learn so that you can increase your impact on your community and those that you serve. I really appreciate it very, very much. We'll see you in the next one.

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