Your year end giving campaign is a big part of your overall annual fundraising. But what all goes into a successful campaign? It starts with messaging and then spreading it out amongst all the different channels your donors exist on.

What you'll learn:

→ the importance of a year end giving campaign.
→ show up in multiple channels
→ direct mail is critical.
→ making it easy to give.

Want to skip ahead? Here are key takeaways:

[5:07] 30% of all giving happens in the month of December. Historically it was because of marketing efforts and year end tax break reminders. Now, a part of it is that people want to feel good at this time of year and give back. ‘Tis the season! There are also last minute donations because they haven't given yet this year even though they intended to.
[8:41] Create a multi-channel approach. Direct mail pieces convert well, even with online giving on the rise. You'll also want to include multiple emails. If you can add in text messaging, do it! Personal phone calls can also make a huge impact.
[11:45] Start by creating your mailer. This is the largest piece and will help you craft the rest of your materials. Make the problem manageable so people feel the impact they're making. Pick a singular problem. You can highlight other parts of your organization in future campaigns throughout the year.
[28:15] Make it easy to give. Check your links and make sure everything is working. Don't make people work too hard. They should be able to get directly to your giving page and donate quickly. Ensure their is a monthly giving option. They give more over time that a first time individual gift.

Resources

[quiz] Should You DIY Your Website?

Full Transcript

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Hope you've been loving our month on your end giving so far. It's been fantastic and today is not going to disappoint I promise. If you've been listening to some episodes and you're like, I really just want a down and dirty. How do I put this together? Then we have the episode for you. Janet Cobb is here to chat with us about all of the things to think about when setting up your year end giving campaign from the basics, to really make sure that you're starting your foundation out strong.

Janet Cobb has worked in the nonprofit arena her entire career. She's a certified fundraising executive and a certified nonprofit professional, who is committed to creating positive change through helping grassroots organizations bring their vision to reality. Janet offers strategic planning and coaching around communications and fundraising. She has supported more than 650 nonprofits since 2014, and is affectionately known as the small nonprofit whisperer. By many she's worked with, we got go into some great actionable items for you as you're thinking about building and scaling and growing your year end giving campaign.

So this episode is great for you. If you're new, and you're really trying to figure out how can you effectively launch a year end giving campaign. It's also great for you, if you're feeling overwhelmed, and you maybe have done a few campaigns in the past, you really just want to get back to basics into the tried and true strategies that you know work, multi channel marketing, really making sure that you're putting your story out there and talking with your donors connecting with them. She gives him a really great tactical advice and episode, you might need to listen to multiple times as you start to put your plan together. But she jam packed a lot of actionable advice in this quick little episode.

So before we get into it, though, this episode is brought to you by our quiz, should you DIY your website. Now having a website is important for nonprofits and especially during this time of year end giving. So making sure that your website is on point and ready to communicate what you need. The DIY quiz is great for that it's going to help you really understand where you're at with your website. And if it's time for an overhaul, and if you should be doing it or if someone else should be helping you with it. As you go into budgeting season and figuring out what next year looks like for you. It's a great time to take this quiz so that you can make sure that you're all set ready to go and that your website is primed to support your year end giving campaign. You can check out the free quiz at https://thefirstclick.net/quiz Check it out, and I can't wait to see what your results are. Let's get into the episode.

[Intro] You're listening to the digital marketing therapy podcast. I'm your host, Sami Bedell-Mulhern. Each month we dive deep into a digital marketing or fundraising strategy that you can implement in your organization. Each week, you'll hear from guest experts, nonprofits, and myself on best practices, tips and resources to help you raise more money online and reach your organizational goals.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Hey, hey there, please join me in welcoming Janet Cobb to the podcast. Janet, thank you so much for being here today.

[Janet Cobb] You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, and I am so excited that we're continuing our conversation this month about year end giving campaigns because it's such a critical time for nonprofit organizations in the calendar year. But before we kind of jump into that, why don't you share a little bit about what you love so much about your end giving campaign.

[Janet Cobb] So that the whole idea around urine giving to me is that it really sparks generosity. And in a season when, you know, we're filled with lots of gluttony and, and wanting you know, people making wish lists for Christmas and, you know, the whole writing letters to Santa kind of consumerism that consumes us from, you know, even Halloween now from Halloween to December 31, you know, when we think about urine giving and philanthropy at this time, it's like, it's a reminder that it's not just all about us, right? And that in, in receiving we should also be giving, you know, that sort of thing. So. So that's why I like to help people really think about how to approach their urine giving campaigns and help people do good while they're also enjoying all of the holidays that they many people love.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, it's about finding balance, right? Yeah.

[Janet Cobb] Yeah, absolutely.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] That's so great. So what? Just from a practical standpoint, like why are your in giving campaign so important for nonprofits, if there's a nonprofit listening that might be a little bit newer, and they're like, Well, we're just going to skip it this year, or we don't have the bandwidth for it kind of what might be your pep talk? luck that, you know, it still is something that should be a part of your your giving strategy or your fundraising strategy.

[Janet Cobb] Yeah, well, you know, 30% of all giving happens in the month of December. And, you know, part of me thinks, well, that's a carryover to pre internet days when everybody did mailings at the end of the year, right? And there was this whole tax break thing. But since 2017, with the new tax laws, there's less of that. Because people don't itemize. A lot of people don't itemize it. And also, I think, even though there is more giving, because online giving, and people are changing their strategies and asking more at different times of the year, people still want to be generous at the time when they're also feeling kind of selfish. You know, the biggest time to volunteer at food pantries and homeless shelters is Thanksgiving, right? People just want people want to believe themselves to be really good, altruistic people in this time of year for whatever reason. So let's capitalize on that. Right? Let's, let's encourage that, let's, let's really be part of that opportunity for people to to be better people than they might be the rest of the year.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] And do we also think that there's a little element of procrastination also, like if you're sending out more messages and things throughout the whole year, and they're getting them? Oh, yeah, I'll give later. I'll give later. I'll give later. If you're doing a great year end campaign, you're kind of bombarding people in the best way with your messaging. And we'll talk more about some of those strategies in a little bit. But you know, it's kind of your more in their face to also remind those people that have been wanting to give all year and just have not yet pulled the trigger?

[Janet Cobb] Yes, absolutely. And especially if they do if their finances are such that they do want tax incentives, tax incentive is one of the least motivating things when you survey donors, right. So I encourage nonprofits not to overemphasize the tax deadline of December 31. But to more emphasize the generosity and the thinking of others and that sort of thing. And so yes, it is, you know, like, now's the time, now's the time if you've, if you've slept off all the cushions. But you help people see that, that the the intentions, they set out with their new year's resolutions to be better people, you know, if you've kind of messed up and you kind of let them fall by the wayside. Here's a moment. Here's a moment before you make your next new year's resolution to do the good that you promised to do last year or earlier in the year. So yeah,

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] well, you kind of mentioned earlier, you know, we you're in campaigns have definitely transition from big cumbersome mailings, mailing and checks to kind of more online strategies. So some organizations may feel a little bit discombobulated, like, where do we go? How do we do? What strategies are working things like that? So you know, if we were going to start fresh this year, and kind of be like, Okay, we're gonna really kind of do this the right way, where might we want to start and thinking about crafting the strategy around or urine campaign.

[Janet Cobb] So the strategy is to start with a letter. With a mailing, if you have addresses, and you have a budget, which I hope you do, for mailing, at least one mailing is important, because although online giving is increasing, postal mail giving is still the primary mode of giving. You also want emails, and you don't just want one email you want over the course of from mid October to December 31, you want a good chunk of emails, some more concentrated a few and a few in a week, around the end of the year around giving Tuesday, but at least once a week, once every 10 days, from mid October to the end of December. And you want that because people are bombarded like you said with all sorts of things. And they need to be reminded how many how many people you know, get a piece of mail and put it on their kitchen table and it falls to the bottom of the stack. Right. So then they get an email and they're like, Ooh, I remembered I got that letter. You know, and that happened. To me all the time I get emails, they're in my inbox, they fall to the bottom of my inbox, I get a letter. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I did want to give to this organization. But if you don't have a way for me to go and give online, you're not getting my money. Whereas there are other people who say, give me, you know, send me an email to remind me. But if there's not an easy way for me to mail in a check, you're not getting my money. So what we want to do is use a multi channel omni channel approach, so that people are hearing it in more than one arena. Right? In more than one life. Our online life is different than our, you know, front porch life, right? Text messaging, if you can do it, phone calls, if you have that capacity. So I think you really want to say Where are My people, people who care about what I care about, and how can I reach them. So it might be social media, it might be an in person visit or gathering, it might be a phone call, it might be email, it might be snail mail. So you want to try rooted in your own capacity to do as many of those things as you can. One way to minimize the idea of content creation, because that feels overwhelming, is that's why I first mentioned the mail, because the mailer is going to be the longest piece that you use. So you create the mailer. And then you take pieces from it, to create your emails, to create your text messages to create your social media posts. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, and people people, the more you can have the theme and the sort of same language running through all your pieces, the more it's going to resonate. Your people don't have to rethink it, though, you know, they see an email, they see a social media post, it reminds them of the letter. If everything is very different. You're not saying anything. It's just a lot of noise. We all know the power of repetition, right? It's the whole branding thing. It's the whole you know, that's the way advertising works, right? Yeah, every, you know, commercial doesn't have a different approach different colors, different words. It's repetition, repetition, repetition. So that's

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] good cola. Coca Cola has been having the polar bears on their Christmas ads for how long? And nobody goes. Oh,

[Janet Cobb] right. Exactly. Right. If it's well done, if it's well done, people love it. Right. To me, donor fatigue is not a frequency issue. It's a content issue.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Um, you just dropped lots like all of the goodness in like that last? I don't know what, five minutes. I'm just sitting here nodding my head like yes, yes. Yes. I love so many things that you said. And I want to call out a couple things. Multichannel. Absolutely. And, and weaving that message through? Absolutely. I I think that we need to remember that not everybody engages in the same way, but also that it makes people feel more cared for when they're getting multiple pieces also, because now they're saying, okay, they really, they really want me to see this. They're not thinking this organ? Well, some might, but most people that are engaged in care about your organization are not thinking, Oh, they keep sending me all this stuff. This is overwhelming. They're saying, Oh, I'm so glad they sent this to me, because I do want to engage, but we're busy. And so we don't make the decision, just to your point, when when it comes. Um, so I love that you. Oh, go ahead.

[Janet Cobb] I was going to say the other thing about that is if your messaging is such that you are trying to provide value to the donor, correct, rather than just talk about yourself? Yes, then it's, then they feel more cared for, right? Instead of saying help us achieve our mission or our vision. You say, Let us help you achieve yours. And then the people who really care are going to connect to you.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, that is such a good clarification there for sure. I want to go back to the mailing piece. Because I love that you set that up as kind of the cornerstone for your whole campaign with which you can pull and repurpose from. So do you know do you have Some examples like when when you think about a piece that would go out, because I would think to make it stand out amongst the holiday cards and things like that, you might want to have it, you know, the envelope be a different color, or have it be a size that's still okay to mail cost effectively, but doesn't, you know, just fit in a regular envelope? Like, how might we want to think about that piece? Are there examples of things that you've seen that have worked really well like stuff to include in it?

[Janet Cobb] Yeah. So however, you can make the envelope stand out that's important, right? Color size, a handwritten message in the corner or along the back, or a sticker of some sort on the envelope, something inexpensive, larger organizations have the money to do all the fancy stuff, right. But if we're not that, then we need to think of cost effective ways to do that. And those are some of those ways. A different stamp even, you know, get a special stamp of some sort. But some sort of question on the envelope. Whether handwritten or printed, please, please don't use window envelopes that look like bills. That would be one thing. Don't do that, you know? Yeah. So an envelope is like a subject line. You got to get them to open it. If they if the subject line doesn't resonate, or the envelope doesn't stand out. It's jumpin.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, I think that's brilliant. And you see, I mean, we get stuff all the time from organizations that I don't open, because, you know, inside is just, you know, oh, here's some stamps, or here's some, you know, they try to like, get be a little bit gimmicky. And I think people can see through that. So it's the authenticity of, of what your organization does, and getting creative and having fun with it. But making sure it's in alignment with the work that in the community that you serve.

[Janet Cobb] Yes. And, you know, sometimes I've seen where participants in programs will be the people who write the handwritten message on the envelope. And it can be a consistent message, that's part of your theme. Or it could simply be you know, thanks for all your support, or you know, something, just a heartfelt Hey, you know, hey, Sammy, we love that you're in our community. Yep. You know, just something that's going to draw the eye. And your name always draws your eye, by the way. Yeah,

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] well, cuz it shows you put.

[Janet Cobb] Yes, exactly.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Okay, so let's talk about the piece on the inside, then, you touched on, let's make it about the donor, let's show them our impact. But you know, but doing it by taking our donors values and motivations into account, so what types of things would we want to put on the inside of this piece?

[Janet Cobb] So content wise, I think one of the big things is I hesitate to say we want to make it about the donor, you know, we have the phrase, donor centric fundraising, and that sort of thing. I don't think the donor needs to be the center, I think they need to be able to find themselves in the story that you're telling, right? So they are inside the scene, we live and breathe, what we do every day. donors don't necessarily, so we have to bring them in like a good movie or story so that the universal cause or emotion that we're trying to evoke, is done in a personal way. And then that personal becomes universal. That's how we create empathy, which is what happens in movies and stories and novels, right? So if we can write our, our letter in that way, so that I can connect with what you're trying to tell me. If if I don't connect if if it has nothing to do with me, then why am I going to invest in this? Right? So I'm, I resist that idea of donor as hero, but donor as participants in the story, I think is really, really important. And maybe it's semantics. I don't know. But, but I think just a switch in words does help us see it a little bit differently because we don't want to make the participants or beneficiaries of our services in any way less Central. Sure. Right. So you know, Maybe it's a duel protagonist kind of, you know, we're in this together, right? And so join us or let us join you that sort of thing. So that's one thing, make it very, you know, the singular effect, right? If, if you're working on an on a cause that is big, which most of us are, you know, nonprofits, we've got to bring your cause down to something that is manageable and doable for the donor. I cannot solve that 11 million people go to bed hungry in the United States. Yeah. Right. But if you say one in five, I'm getting that's, that's more manageable in my brain, right? Because my $50 is not going to solve 11 million people's problems, but my $50 might feed that child for a month. Right. And so you've got to make a very big problem very manageable. And don't try to so that's the second thing. The third thing is don't try to do tell all of the everything that you do, pick one thing that you do, and help the donor understand how they can help solve that problem. Right? It doesn't become a restricted gift. If you just talked about one of your programs, as long as you say something in the letter somewhere about, you know, let me give give a specific example. Your $25 Today, we'll make sure that Johnny has a bed for the night, and help to, to, you know, serve all of the homeless people in our community. Right, you know, it's a simple phrase that that makes the gift not restricted. Right. There's that. And then also, I think the content I missed the one thing there was something else I was going to say about that. Not restrict don't tell everything that you're doing. It'll come back to me. I I've lost the the other thought or

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] happens to me all the time. Yeah.

[Janet Cobb] I don't even pretend anymore. It's just

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, no, but I do because it's funny, because like everything, but the kitchen sink was like kept coming in. I'm like, I'm I gotta make sure I asked Do you know Janet about that piece? Because I think we tend to think at year end, we have to do this synopsis of here's everything that we accomplished this year. And that kind of breaks two of your rules. One is, you know, the scope and the magnitude and also giving people a singular purpose. So I guess two people that are saying, well, what if I send this email or this letter or posts or whatever out to people, and they don't they care more about something else that we've been focused on? Are we going to lose the opportunity for that? Donation? So what would you say to those folks?

[Janet Cobb] So here's the big important thing, segmentation. If you know, there are donors in your donor base that really care about a particular thing, then send a letter about that particular thing, you can have more than one idea. And I know that sort of feels overwhelming. But really, if you are, you can't be all things to all people. Right. And if you're trying to say too much about too many things, you're going to lose everybody. Right? So if you clearly have very different kinds of programs, so I know an organization that has it was for organizations that merged, they were saving, serving the same community, all and and realize that the people they were serving were the same, they were just meeting different needs. So they became one organization to better serve the people. And they decided to have at least four campaigns a year with a different focus. Right. And so the people who gave you know, who really particularly cared about one campaign gave it that time of year and what that did was it spread out their fundraising so that they had a more balanced budget or you know, income revenue stream across the year. So you can do it that way. You know, if you if you feel like you can't segment at your end, you know, pick the group, pick the theme, pick the idea that program that More people here, you know, sort of lean towards at year end, then because that is your biggest campaign, still send it to the other people, you know, send it to everybody, but know that some of those folks are going to be giving it when you send a different campaign. But if you can segment and send two or three or four different letters to different populations, then, of course do that.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, cuz you get $0. From the people you don't ask. Right? Right. Like, you know, you're gonna get zero, you know, for them. Yeah. And I think that's the beauty of email. And when we look at an email marketing campaign, because you mentioned, you're starting in October, you're going all the way through December, you're sending emails very regularly, especially at the end. And people might say, Well, I'm not going to have enough things, different things to talk about when it comes to my year end campaign. So if you're coming up with a theme, and overarching theme, you know that different donors have different motivations and different pain points for why they give to that cause. So those emails are a great way also to address the different motivations of those donors. And they might not resonate with the first email, but then the second one really hits home, or maybe it's the fourth or fifth one where they're like, oh, my gosh, yes. Like they're hitting, you know, exactly the reason why I'm passionate about this cause and so like, that's the beauty of understanding who your donors are, and taking them into consideration. You know, you might only send out one mailer, but your email marketing, your social media posts allow you to play on the theme, with different donors in mind.

[Janet Cobb] Absolutely. And the mailer because it's going to be long, four pages, not one, front and back of two pieces of paper, at least 14 point font. Those sorts of things. If you have a longer letter, you have different entry points. So you're focused on the same sort of story, but you're bringing in different angles, those different angles of, of what the donor might be looking for the donor might be thinking, right? And then that's where you picked up your email pieces. Right. Yeah. So So yeah, you, you want to make sure that you're tapping into the emotions, the different emotions that lead people into this arena, this cause area? Yeah. And, and touch on those throughout the campaign. Not all except the letter, but you know, not all in every social media posts or whatever. Right?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah. Well, and you see, you mentioned too, I want to make sure we touch on this, you mentioned, you know, making it easy for people to give, you might put together a great piece, but if it's not easy for them to make a make that next step, then we've lost them. So I think QR codes are the you know, making sure your mailing address is prevalent and QR codes is the easiest. Is there anything else that you're seeing out there that might make those conversions higher?

[Janet Cobb] If you have mobile phone numbers, yeah. I would begin to text long before year end to make sure that people have the ability to say stop or whatever, you know, text them a Happy Labor Day or whatever, right? You know, yeah. Just to do that, but then, you know, text if you can make sure that your emails are mobile friendly. Right. Make sure that all your links work. I mean, this sounds very fundamental, but I have seen real I have seen lots, right where links don't work, that sort of thing. On your website, your donate button should lead directly to where I give you my credit card. You don't want I always think of I'm I'm an old lady. I'm an old lady. And sorry. Sorry. I'm an old lady. And I remember that commercial of the Tootsie Roll pop. How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop? How many clicks does it take for me to give you my money? If it takes if I click the donate button and it takes me to a page that I have to scroll down and it has seven different ways for me to give. And then I click on that and then I have to read a story before now your donate button needs to link straight to your to your where I give you my credit card. If you can introduce Apple pay Google pay all of those payment methods the more you have, the better, right if you can I mean, I would definitely make sure that you have monthly giving as an option. Because some people, lots of people will give their very first gift even as a monthly gift if the price point is right, if that, if you are talking about, you know what the power of $10 or $20 can do in the life of one person, then make monthly giving an option and defaulted on your website, make it very clear, don't try to hide it, say give monthly or give one time but make monthly the first choice, not the last choice, because people are just, they're giving on impulse they're giving you you've touched them in some way they're giving on impulse. Don't make them think too much. Don't try to trick them. Right. If it says one time, I'm just going to push one time. Yep. If it says monthly and I and I'm like, oh, yeah, I could do $10 monthly. Right. If I don't want to do $10 Monthly, I will find one time. Yeah, right. So it's things like you won't go the other way around. Right? It won't, it won't register in the you asked me for one time gift, I'm giving you a gift, right?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] And a one time gift of like $250 is great, but a monthly gift of $10 is even better, even though it feels like it's less I think those monthly donors over time, their lifetime giving value is so much higher than that person who gives a one on one time gift of something a little bit more significant.

[Janet Cobb] Well, the numbers prove it, right? Yeah, a first gift, the retention rate is something like 19%. Now, right? If you can get into a second gift, you're at like 60%. But if you can get them on a monthly giving pattern, it's something like 85 90%. And their lifetime giving Benli donors tend to give about three or four years. Right. So additional work, yes, plus additional on time gets. It lessens your workload moving forward in a lot of ways because then you're stewarding donors, you're not trying to acquire new ones. So many people focus on acquiring new donors, when really, if you stewarded the donors you have and then cultivated the people in your audience who are not yet donors in a way that you become the trusted source of all things in your cause area. They will convert.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Now you all know why I wanted Janet to come on this podcast because I have been saying these things to you over and over again. And so it's always good to have another expert come in and say this, I'm like, so excited. I love everything that you're saying. And not just because we agree with each other, but because it's just such good stuff to remember, as we go into year end giving, because it can feel overwhelming. There's a lot going on, you want to spend time with your own family, and do your own holiday thing. But I think what you shared here is a lot of prep work on the front end, and then it can all just kind of run and then maybe you're just doing some one off phone calls and checking in with people. As you see the gifts come in, maybe there's some obvious people that are missing from the list, you know that you can kind of follow up with one on one. So I like the way that you've really laid this out. We could talk about this for hours. But I think you gave people a lot of good stuff to dig into and get started with. But if there was kind of any last piece of advice, what would you want to share? Janet,

[Janet Cobb] I was I stuck my fingers up three, I have three things that we cannot leave unsaid. One is, if you have really higher end donors, they should not get the mass mailing. Right? Separate out the top 20% of your giving pool, they give you 80% of your dollars typically right? They should be getting a personal approach at year end. Ideally, it's very early, and you're asking them to become to leverage their gift. So it will go further with a matching gift. Right because we always tell the smaller donor, your dollar will be doubled. Yeah, we also need to remind the the major donor their dollar will be doubled. Right? Because by offering it as a matching challenge, you're encouraging more people to give, which wouldn't happen without that. Okay, so that's one thing. Approach major donors differently and when you can ask them to create a match. Second thing is start early and get it all ready ahead of time, I do not want anyone who's listening to be spending the last week between Christmas and New Year or, or, you know, Hanukkah and new year doing fundraising, I hate to say it, I'm against the great note, don't be in the office, take that week off. Everything should be set up and going out automatically. Right? Don't Don't, don't do that. Right. And then the third thing I would say is make sure that you have your thank you in place, and ready to go, people who receive a heartfelt thank you not the not the transactional receipt saying their credit card was processed. Right? And not just a form letter. But a real heartfelt thank you. If they can get that within 48 hours, they are four times more likely to give again. Right? So don't neglect the thank you process in the planning process,

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] regardless of your size, right? What was that? Regardless of gift size, right?

[Janet Cobb] Regardless of gift size, if someone gives you $1 They get a heartfelt thank you from you. Yeah,

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] but well, not because you dollar out of that 19% retention, right. Like that's a huge step towards building that. I love that. Absolutely. I'm geonet so much goodness, I know people are gonna want to connect with you. If they want to learn more from you and some of the amazing work you do with nonprofits. How can they do that?

[Janet Cobb] So my email is Janet at Janet, Mary cobb.com. That's the easiest way to connect with me. I have a website, Janet Marie cobb.com. My contact information is there. I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter and all that. You won't really find me and it won't be nonprofit related. Right? LinkedIn, LinkedIn, and my website, Janet Marie cobb.com.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] I love that and we'll have all of that linked up in the show notes at https://thefirstclick.net/228 and we are in October when this podcast is launching and so now this is perfect time for you to just you know, if you haven't started yet, you're not too late. Get going and Janet. This was amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom.

[Janet Cobb] Thank you for having me. I enjoyed it.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Wow, wow. Wow is all I can say I loved everything that Janet shared all the whip's wisdom and insight that she gave us so many amazing tools, resources, ways to think about your urine campaign and simplify it. I love that she shared ways to simplify it while still making sure that you're showing up in all the places where you need to be showing up to. So again, show notes at https://thefirstclick.net/228 If you enjoyed what you heard on this episode, please subscribe wherever you listen or if you're watching this on YouTube, subscribe there and ring that bell. I appreciate you giving us that feedback. And of course, you'll want to subscribe so you don't miss out on the hidden bonus episodes that come out two times a month. Okay, for now. Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you in the next one.