Ep 226 | Building Community in Preparation for your Year End Giving Campaign with Paul Gowder

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Community is something that is critical when it comes to returning donors. When they feel connected to you they are more likely to come back for more. So how do you build that community? There are many different ways you can create the feel of community – no matter what the size of the organization is. Also – regardless of if you are building a virtual or in person.

What you'll learn:

→ being social on social media.
→ what we can learn from Swifties.
→ creating personal connections.
→ how to engage with different generations.
→ why community makes it easier to fundraise.

Want to skip ahead? Here are key takeaways:

[5:30] A Facebook group is a great way to build a virtual community. You'll be able to communicate and share what's going on as well as allow people to connect with each other over their common love for your cause.
[6:49] Community doesn't look like any one thing. Looking to Taylor Swift for inspiration, you can see how even at a large scale, you can still build a tight knit community. Each person engages in their own way but once you get them all in the same stadium they all share the same experience.
[9:29] Think about your communication as one-on-one, even if it isn't. When writing your communications, pretend you're writing it to one person. That will ensure that it feels special and more personal.
[16:36] Different generations engage differently, just like different platforms lend themselves to community differently. It's about meeting people where they are and utilizing the platforms as they're intended. Setting goals for your growth based off how platforms work makes a big difference.
[26:13] When you build a real connection they show up when you ask. It makes it easier for you to make that year end ask because they know who you are and the impact you've been creating for the past year. Consistency matters!


Digital Marketing Therapy sessions

Paul Gowder

Paul Gowder

Owner and Founder, PowWows.com

Paul Gowder is the owner and founder of PowWows.com which has been the leading online community celebrating Native American arts and culture for the past 25 years. Paul’s techniques and skills have enabled him to build one of the largest and most engaged online communities in the World. Paul helps other entrepreneurs navigate the successes and pitfalls of building an online business through his public speaking and consulting services. Learn more about Paul by visiting PaulGowder.com.

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Full Transcript

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Building community can look like a lot of different things. It could be a Facebook group, it could be people that are just following you on social media, it could be people on your email list, it could be your monthly giving program, community can look very different. And it just really is in alignment with what your organization is and does to determine how you build and set up your community. But one thing we know is that community is really important, it's important to have that connection and for people to feel like they are a big part of the solution. And that by giving dollars, they understand exactly how that's being used and how they can still be a part of it beyond just the gifts that they're giving. So today, we have Paul Gowder, as our guest to talk all about how you can work on building that community, and how you can use it in preparation for your year end giving campaign. Paul gouter is the owner and founder of powwows.com, which has been the leading online community celebrating Native American arts and culture for the past 25 years, Paul's techniques and skills have enabled him to build one of the largest and most engaged online communities in the world. Paul helps other entrepreneurs navigate the successes and pitfalls of building an online business through his public speaking and consulting services. You can learn more about Paul by visiting paulgowder.com. And we'll of course have everything linked up in the show notes for you.

Now, community, like he says in his bio is not just about creating it, it's about fostering and nurturing it, and really making people feel involved and included. So I think you're gonna like this episode in the tips and tricks that he shares with you about how to build an authentic and real community that thrives and builds and engages and gets people coming back for more because that's what we want, right? We want to create these raving fans that are gonna go out and help spread the word. And it starts by really having a thriving community. So I mentioned before, there's so many different ways that you can do this. We talked about a few in this episode, but really get creative. And think about who you are the work you do, the personality of your brand and your company, and how you can bring people in and go alongside you. So before we get into this episode is brought to you by our digital marketing therapy sessions. These are one on one sessions with me and they're so much fun. I love connecting with you and helping you work through something that you're feeling stuck on. Whether it's what type of community rollout is best for you how to get people into that community, how to share what content should you be creating? Is it in person or online all of the questions that you're probably going to have after this episode, a digital marketing therapy session is a great way to work through some of the plans you put together, so we can help you make it a raving success. Head on over to https://thefirstclick.net/officehours to book your time with me. I can't wait to chat with you and learn more about your plans for your incredible community. Let's get into the episode.

[Intro] You're listening to the digital marketing therapy podcast. I'm your host, Sami Bedell-Mulhern. Each month we dive deep into a digital marketing or fundraising strategy that you can implement in your organization. Each week, you'll hear from guest experts, nonprofits, and myself on best practices, tips and resources to help you raise more money online and reach your organizational goals.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Hello, hello, everybody. Please join me in welcoming Paul Gowder to the podcast. Paul, thank you so much for being here.

[Paul Gowder] Thank you. I appreciate having the time and looking forward to talking with you today.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, community is a conversation that I love and talk about often. So I think this will be a whole lot of fun. But before we kind of really jump into things, like why is you know, community and community building and kind of wrapping your arms around those that want to join alongside you. Why is that something that you find passionate about, or you find passionate and love to talk about?

[Paul Gowder] I, so a couple of things there. One. I feel like now with social media that there's so much emphasis on the word community, but we're not really doing it. We're letting the social networks kind of create these, what feels what looks like community on paper, but it's not really. And for me, the community has been a vital part of what we do@palouse.com From the very beginning. So it's always been a part of who we are, how we how we do things. And really the strength of our of our whole business is the community. You know, it's community is not a Facebook group community is not a Facebook page community is the people that feel like they're part of something bigger and they feel that bond to you and to each other. So yeah, it's been very important for us.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well in community due to your point it's kind of become a buzzword. Yes. I'm kind of like, and I think it's also something that we talk a lot about how we're tracking our marketing and our growth. And you know, community can also be a place where we get wrapped up in vanity metrics. So to your point about Facebook groups and whatnot, we can say our community is 10,000 people strong. But that doesn't mean that they're an engaged group of, of people. So I love that you mentioned that right off the bat that, you know, the goal is to build a community of people that cared not just to build a community.

[Paul Gowder] Right, right. And, you know, I'll, here's, you know, as far as Facebook groups goes out, our Facebook group is 120,000, I think right now. And it's really interesting to me to watch it. And we, like, we'll post something about, hey, there's an upcoming powwow. Here's, you know, here's the latest information. And there's people in our Facebook group, even though the you know, they can see it in the name, you can see it when you grow, when you join, they don't even know that our our powwows.com the website, the what we do is even associated with the Facebook group. So yeah, Facebook group is not not it's not the place, the only place you can kind of have community and it sometimes it doesn't even get associated with your community, depending on how these algorithms are so weird now, people join these communities, and they don't even know what they're joining. Right?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, let's talk about different ways that you can build community because you've talked about Facebook groups. But you know, community can look like a bunch of different things. It can look in person, it can look online, in various capacities, it can look, you know, even just in one on one conversations, like, you know, what, how have you seen different types of communities kind of grow and thrive?

[Paul Gowder] Yeah, so one of the things I like to tell people is the community doesn't live in any one place. Community is anybody who feels that connection to your brand, your business, whatever. A great example of that last week, I went to the Taylor Swift concert with my daughter.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Oh, and you survived.

[Paul Gowder] I did it. Well, I mean, just just a masterclass on performing, right. But, you know, the 70,000 people that were there with us in that stadium, probably most of them were not part of a Facebook group, probably most of them weren't on her email list. But they all feel like they are Swifties. And part of this big community, I think we got to keep that kind of thing in mind is, no matter how people, what touchpoint, they, they come to your business, you treat them like they're part of your community. And they'll get that feeling, regardless of where they're coming from, or how they're interacting with you.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, we feel that we did, I did an episode a few months ago with my daughter, because she's a huge Kpop fan. And Kpop does a very similar thing to kind of to what Taylor Swift has done in building community around who they are with, like, you know, millions of people. But if you talk to any singular person, they feel a personal connection. They don't feel like they're one of the millions or, you know, so I think that's really cool.

[Paul Gowder] Something I told my wife when, after we got back from the show is because of tic toc and everything else, the people in that stadium knew exactly what she was going to say when she said it. But when she said things like, Hey, did anybody make extraordinary effort to be with her be with us today? The people in the audience felt like it was the first time they had heard it. And she was talking to them, because they feel that connection. You know, it's an amazing thing when you can create that type of community. Wow, it was it was crazy to watch.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, and so let's say on on that topic, in that. You know, I think a lot of times we as nonprofit organizations feel like either building community is super cumbersome, because we have to have all these one on one conversations, or we have to do all this outreach. Or we feel like if we're doing it digitally, we're not making real authentic connections with people. So I think this Taylor Swift pieces, kind of an interesting example to kind of ask this question, but how can we show up as brands to still make that authentic connection with people, even if it's not in a one to one kind of setting?

[Paul Gowder] I think there's a few things you can do it. And this is what we do@post.com is when regardless of what I'm messaging people on whether it's Facebook or Instagram, writing a post or writing an email, I talk directly to my audience. I talk to them one on one I try not to think say things like you know, open an email address or open an email message and say, Hey, everybody, then then you're not going to feel it. I try to talk directly one on one so that the reader, or listener, if we're on a podcast or whatever is feeling that one on one connection, like you were just saying, it's so I talk directly to them. I try to be very personal, conversational. It's a lesson that I've had, you know, I keep having to learn it over and over again. But it keeps reminding me but when you do that, people feel that right, you know, people want to want to want to be special. And so like on a podcast, friend of mine, and business coach told me this long ago, when, if you're on a podcast, or a live show, and you can mention people by name, whether they sent you a message, or they left you a comment, that alone will build that one on one connection, because everybody wants to, you know, have that moment on a show that they care about, that feels like they are a part of it. And that's one way you can do it, too is you mentioned people by name, do a, do a post where you're doing like a mailbag segment and say, hey, you know, Sam from North Carolina asked me this question. Thanks so much, Sam, here, here's my answer to you those kinds of things, the more ways you can interact one on one, it really, really does build that, that feeling of the relationship with people?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, I think you see that with a lot of YouTubers in that they'll say their call to action is, you know, subscribe to our channel. And we'll shout you out in a future video. Because I think to your point, they see that value. And I think what's super cool about that, that people don't understand is that even if I'm not the person being shouted out in that moment, it shows me that they care about the people that are engaging with them. So even though it might not be me, I'm still like, oh, that's kind of super cool. They're paying attention to the people that are asking the questions that are subscribing to the channel that are engaging with the brand.

[Paul Gowder] Right, right. And to you know, just beat this Horse, horse Swift. Every concert, she picks one person to come up and get a hat from her, right. But everybody in that stadium and everybody on Tik Tok the day after they weren't that person, but they watched that video, they are super engaged with it. They're cheering for that one person. And they, you know, hey, that could have been me, right? Yeah.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, I love that. That's so good. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the importance of community building being a part of what we do all the time. Because we know as nonprofits at some point, you're going to make an ask right, you're going to ask for a donation. That's a typical progression. Nobody's surprised by that. But how can kind of working on this community building year round help us make those, maybe we're, you know, we're gearing up for your own campaigns when this episode's being published. So how can we kind of think about that year round, so that when we come to that year end giving campaign, we can have better success.

[Paul Gowder] I read a book several years ago by Gary Vaynerchuk, jab, jab, hook or something like that can't remember exact title. And he talks in that book is you deliver value, deliver value, deliver value, and then when you do have your ask it happen, it can happen organically, it's not going to feel like the used car salesman pitch, it's not going to feel like a cold email, cold calling email. It if you can get people to feel that relationship if they feel that connection with you, when you do have an ask. It's, it's not a hard ask, it's an easy thing, because they, they already care about you, they want you to succeed. So it's, you're not having to then can, you know, because I feel like with a sale or you know, any kind of donation or contribution, first you got to educate them on who you are and why. And then you have to get them to make it. And so when you can build these relationships in these communities, you've taken care of the first part, then it's just a can you support me?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, well, I think so much of it is building trust. And if somebody's going to be a part of your community, then then you've built that trust with them. And then you are giving them a reason to then help support you, like you just said, support you. Support you even more. So you talked earlier about like, I when I send my emails, when I communicate with my community digitally, I'm talking to them as if they're an individual. So you know, do you kind of recommend that as you're communicating some of these year end pieces to try to get people to give that you're also segmenting them out a little bit separately from maybe the general audience like is there something to giving them exclusive access to certain things so they feel even more important and they're getting a special ask different than what maybe the general public is getting asked for?

[Paul Gowder] Right? I think all those things can work. I've seen a lot of times where you don't have to give them because they already they feel the connection Strong. When is it supporting you is enough of a reward for them. I think when you build a really strong community that that can be enough. So, when we talk about whether you're building a Patreon, or, or anything like that, where you can add those kinds of benefits, I think it's important to remember, maybe not, maybe you don't need them at the lower tiers, maybe it is just the higher tiers that you want to create that other benefit, or, you know, they're going to feel special in some way. I would concentrate on building the connection with people and then letting, letting that be the benefit for most people. And then it's the people at the top two years that they're gonna go above and beyond. Okay, so I am going to give them rewards. Yeah.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, that you just made it more simple and easy for people. So I love that. That's so great. Um, so let's talk a little bit about, you know, we we've been talking a lot about different multi generational community building and giving. And obviously, I think, and I think you'd probably agree that community is even more important for younger millennials and Gen Z, maybe even more so than the Boomers and Gen X. So what as we're approaching this this community building, is that do we need to approach it differently for different generations? Or are we just naturally going, if we're doing it the right way, in alignment with our brand, that we will just attract the right people? Regardless, but that commute? This is a very long question. But community building is important across generations.

[Paul Gowder] It's across, it's important across generations, but it's an important that you keep it going regardless of the platform. And that's what I see as far as the multi generational come to come to my website and my community, is that the people that are interacting with us on Facebook or Facebook Group is a different generation usually, and the people on Tik Tok or Instagram, so. So that's why it's really important that you keep the same type of community building the same type of relationship building across the platforms, so that you do meet the meet your different generations where they are, you know, I see. For me, I see, you know, like Facebook, for example, the people on Facebook are super loyal, and they will stay in our Facebook group and on our page for years and years. The people on our tic tock, they may not even click the Follow button, they may just interact and next week, they may not even be on to you know, they may not be watching Tik Tok, they may engage with us on Instagram, it's for them. For that younger generation, I don't feel like they are always consuming content the same way every day, every week, it changes so fast. So you have to keep doing the same things in every platform, so that you make sure you're meeting them there.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah, and I think it's, it's interesting, because, you know, it'll be interesting to see in your Facebook group, like, they're very loyal, they're sticking around. But I think sometimes we feel like the growth there isn't happening at the same level, which can be disheartening, but it's also going back to understanding the power and the value of where people are, and if they're fully engaged, but it's not growing, and you're still seeing results, like that's okay. And that maybe it's time to start looking at other places where you can kind of increase that, that impact and build that community. I want to touch on kind of how we can pull people through to that one on one conversation because ultimately, that's that's the goal, right? We can have great conversation on a Facebook group or on a DM or on a you know, conversation thread in Instagram. But you know, how do you have any tips or ways that you can kind of create a conversation and kind of make people kind of come away from that social media platform and have a one on one conversation with you?

[Paul Gowder] Yes. For me, the best conversations the one on one connections are happening on my email newsletter. And people think I'm crazy sometimes when I still say no so important to us. I am firm believer in email. And got you you mentioned the word segment earlier. We segment our email list in several different ways to capture the our community in the kind of the interest categories that they want to be in. So for example, I have us a sequence called What to expect at your first powwow for people that have never been to a powerhouse so that one in in that series of emails, I asked questions to them. I asked for them to respond to me on different things. And I can It, you know, 1015 emails, some days of people responding to those emails. And I'm, I'm able to then have these one on one conversations. And it's amazing. I mean, of course, of course, you know, after they write you one or two times, maybe they don't, you're not going to be pen pals forever with them through email. But I do have four or five people that continue to email me every week. Because they feel that, you know, they want to continue that conversation. But even if you're able to get them to reply one time, and you write them back, they're going to be a part of your community for a long time, because you've now establish a one on one connection with them. So yeah, email is huge. Because when you can own your list, you don't have to worry about these algorithms. And to it, it's the best way to get that one on one.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] You're speaking my language. I'm a huge believer in email marketing. Okay, so let's switch gears completely. And I want to kind of because I think, you know, some people might say, Well, my audience is small, there's no way I can have a big enough community to really make impact. I don't really need to build a community, I would imagine that your community could you could feel limited by the growth opportunity within what you do, and who you serve. But what would you say to people that feel like, well, there's no reason for me to start a community because the number of people that would want to join it are too small.

[Paul Gowder] It's fine. Don't, don't create a Facebook group. But continue to, like, going back to what we said, if you do a live video, if you do a story. Treat people that see that content, as they're part of your big picture community. You know, treat them like they are a Swifty, don't, don't make them feel like they have to join a community or they have to subscribe to your email list to be part of the cool club. Go ahead. And you know, if they watch your video one time, say talk to them. Let them feel that that belonging and it's going to be okay. I you know, I think people do get caught up on do you have to create a Facebook group where you have to do you have these certain things on social media? And it's okay, if you don't? If it doesn't fit with your with what you're doing organically? Then don't do it for now. It's okay. I'm all about don't You don't have to be on every single platform be on the one that works for you? And do it? Well?

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Yeah. Well, and I think community again, is like what you make of it? Yes. So you can you can turn it into whatever you want, however you want. I mean, if we look at if we dropped into Swift, nobody else has built a community like she has she's done it in her own way, by her own rules. And, you know, that's part of the reason why I think it is so, so large and encompasses such a wide variety of people. But if you ask anybody else to try to duplicate exactly what she's done, it wouldn't work for them.

[Paul Gowder] Right? Right. It's not Yeah, it's not gonna work for you necessarily. But you can take these lessons from, and remember to treat everybody like they're part of your community, regardless of where they are interacting with you.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Um, so any other kind of tips or anything that you've learned along the way, like maybe things that you tried or didn't work, like, testing is such a part of, you know, finding out what connects, but kind of any advice that you would want to share with people, if they're just getting started?

[Paul Gowder] Yes, show up in your community. If you if, for example, it's going back to if you have a Facebook group, don't, especially in the beginning, don't be a silent part of it be an active part of it, you know, at some point, you, you probably as the admin or the moderator don't have to be in there every day. But in the beginning, you do, and you need to be in there nurturing that community. Same thing, if you're growing your community on email, you need to be showing up there and talking to them personally directly. Not just blasting them with the latest blog post or your latest offering your your new T shirt or whatever, don't keep blasting that content at them, talk to them, be there for them. And it's all about the nurturing right, and then the rest of it will come organically.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Well, and how important is it to really just ask them for their feedback, like I think a lot of times is organizations, you know, yes, we know we're going to make a donation ask we know we're going to share like just like you said, we're going to blast them with all the stuff. But like how much a part of building that community is even just reaching out and saying, Well, what do you need? How could we support you? Because I think we tend to not do that as organizations because we make it mostly about us.

[Paul Gowder] I totally agree. I think you should survey your audience often. But more importantly is again, if you're showing up in that Facebook group Right, and you're in there reading the comments, you know, you need to be keeping a notepad of what are the questions that keep coming up over and over again, if there's a, you know, if you've got a long discussion going on, what are the topics that keep coming up, maybe those are things that you do need to spend a little more time clear clearing up for people, or it's a part of the education process of the onboarding or whatever, into your ecosystem. Look at what what they're talking about, and that there's where you need to go. And that's how you need to move forward, whether whatever content or, you know, whatever your marketing plan is, look at what they're asking about. And those are the kinds of things you're gonna want to talk about.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Perception is reality, right? And sometimes that's hard to face. Yeah. Okay. So the last thing I kind of want to touch on today is, you know, if we've worked really hard, you know, for a few months, or a year, whatever, and we're building this amazing community. And we know, we've got, you know, I think, naturally, a handful of strong leaders will emerge from your community, or people that are more active or whatnot, how can we engage with them to help us kind of launch or build or get excitement for a year end giving campaign?

[Paul Gowder] I again, I have to go back to it. If you've built a strong community, then they are already invested. So that when you do come out with your your, your big thing, or your Cornerstone content that the thing that is so vital, and core to what you do, they are going to want to be a part of that with you. And so it's when you build that kind of thing. Like we I do a lot of giveaways on the websites. And when we do our big ones, like for Native American Heritage Month, the audience is already invested, they're already wanting to be a part of it. So they're naturally telling people about it, getting excited about it, you know, I'm getting emails before we started of, hey, when's this gonna start? When are we doing it? You know, if you can build the buzz, if you can build excitement, building engagement, they're going to they're going to do some of that marketing for you, without you even having to ask. And again, it has to be make sure whatever your big ask is your, your big campaign, make sure you're doing it in a way that, again, is that one on one connection, I see so many people, you know, just making these, like a T shirt sale, right? They're just posting a picture of the t shirt without trying to make it. There's no story, there's no connection. There's no connection there there. Yeah, it's just hey, here's the design, buy it, you know, yeah, you've got to do these things a little more organically. And sometimes it's going to take some thought, especially when you're first starting out, and you're not sure how people what resonates with your community and what connection what where the connections are, you might have to put a little bit of thought and work into this. But that's what's going to be successful, right is when when they're already invested. So that when you make the ask, they want to be a part of it.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] So I love it, because it goes back to what you were saying earlier is it takes you know, kind of the consistency of showing up regularly talking to people, whether it's in mass email, or in a Facebook group, as if they're your best champion already. And then I think also to your, you know, to kind of pull a lot of what you said together, you know, paying attention to the comments and what people are saying and sharing, because that's going to help guide you on, on how you show up when you make the ask because that's really going to tell you what they care about what they're nervous about what they're excited about, or what questions, right they have.

[Paul Gowder] I can't tell you, you know, the number of articles we that I've generated, because I keep seeing the same questions over and over again. You know, we just did one a couple of weeks ago, I think we probably started working on a couple weeks ago, we published it this week, you know, it's kept seeing the same question. The same misunderstanding is like, you know, at some point it got through my thick skull of, hey, you know, maybe we are talking about this, right? It's the same thing getting asked over and over. Yeah, you got to be there and show up for those and you'll see them they'll start emerging.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] I love that. Because I think sometimes we work so hard to try to come up with things where really, it's already smacking us in the face. If we just paid attention to what the market in our community is telling us then it's like they lay it out for us. We just need to listen.

[Paul Gowder] Right? And I can give you an example. So probably for years and too long. I didn't recognize this question. But I would get even just a comment of somebody would subscribe to our newsletter and they would respond to one of these segments, right and, and I would get a response like, Hey, when are you bringing a powwow to my state? Or how do I get you guys to come to my stay in? It took it took me a long time to realize one of the things they don't understand and the misconception is that powwows are all independent, independently run events. There's not one it's not like a rodeo or a Taylor Swift concert there. It's not an organized tour that goes around. Each one of these is its own entity. And so we wrote an article about that. And we kind of explained that. So now I have a way to help people understand that better. And it did. It took me a long time to realize that, you know, there's a better way to help people with this. Instead of just keep pointing them to, hey, here's the calendar for your state. It's let me make let me try to make this a little more clear for you. So yeah,

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] that's so good. And such a good reminder. I love the book by Marcus Sheridan, they ask you answer, because it's that's exactly what it's about what it's like, you know, the content you're putting on your website, the content you're talking about on your social, the way you're building community around your brand is just simply answering the questions that your market is, is giving you it's just that simple. Well, Paul, I think, such good inspiration, such good ways to think about how we're building community and thinking about community differently. And I think it's really an oversimplification, to oversimplify it is a simplified approach, which I love. It's just showing up and being you. But with a little bit of thought and strategy and consistency and how you navigate what that looks like. Any other kind of last words of wisdom that you'd like to share.

[Paul Gowder] Just be be there for your community, be yourself in the community. Don't. Don't try to be a brand. Just be yourself. People want to engage with you, not a brand. And so be as personable as you can.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] I love that. Well, Paul, if people want to learn more about powwow as well, powwows.com obviously, you can go there. But if people want to learn more about you and kind of see your community and all the great things you've done, how can they do that? Yeah,

[Paul Gowder] so a couple things. One, I would love for you out there listening to come to a powwow they are open to the public, it is a place where you will get to experience and connect with Native American culture in real life, it's amazing. You can go to palace.com/powwows near me. And that'll help you find a PowerShell close to you. They are in every state in almost every Canadian province. So there's one close to you somewhere. If you want to learn more about what I do as far as email marketing and building community. I've got a website, Paul gallagher.com. And I'd love to talk with you and help you build your community. So hit me up.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] I love that. And we'll link up everything in the show notes and the resources that were shared today at the first click.net/ 226. But I really hope that you will take advantage of building community so that you have a much easier year end giving campaign, if not this year, the next year. Paul, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your experience.

[Paul Gowder] Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

[Sami Bedell-Mulhern] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to Paul for joining me today. It was such a great conversation. And I love thinking about community and how we can utilize it to really have the best possible outcomes for our organization and our year end giving campaigns. You can check out all the resources and information about Paul in the show notes at https://thefirstclick.net/226. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope you are getting excited and ramped up for your year end giving campaign. I know it's a crazy stressful time of the year but you got this. Make sure you subscribe wherever you listen so you don't miss out on a single episode. Leave us a review. While you're there. We'd love it to help us get in front of more and more nonprofits that could use support with their urine giving or any of their other digital marketing strategies. And of course, make sure you watch us on YouTube if you want to see video versions of these episodes. Thank you. Thank you so much and I will see you in the next one.

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